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Coin Mintage

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 2,330Next Topic  
Valued Member
Adorus's Avatar
Canada
299 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2012  9:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Adorus to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello,

A few times already I have seen coins grow in price I couldn't ever suspect they would. Today accidently I found this auction :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Canada...t_671wt_1396

where I saw that the coin I once bought just for my collection grew hugely in price. What mad me question myself the most was that the seller stated that the mintage is only 3207 coins.

1) How does he know the mintage of that set ?
2) There are catalogues stating the amount of coins produced, but are there catalogues stating the exact amount or at least the approximate of coins sold ?
3) What if coins do not sold for a long time, does the mint destroy the rest and by doing so reduces the mintage ? If not, what happens to all the unsold coins ?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
789 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2012  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shopaholic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I learnt from this forum that RCM's annual reports show many of each coin/set where sold each year. The one for 2007 can be found at http://www.mint.ca/store/dyn/PDFs/RCM_AR07.pdf

I am very interested to know the answer to your other questions as well. Like... could a dealer still order an old coin from Mint that was not sold out?
Edited by shopaholic
07/02/2012 9:38 pm
Valued Member
coin_games's Avatar
Canada
319 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2012  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coin_games to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To my understanding many coins are produced to demand.
If demand decreases they just stop making them, so if they quoted a mintage of 20,000 it could end up being a lot less.

eg. the 2007 Red Breasted Nuthatch coin had a suggested mintage of 25,000... demand at that time was low resulting in about 10,581 minted.
The series has picked up now and the coin along with a few others have gone up in price considerably.




Valued Member
Adorus's Avatar
Canada
299 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2012  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adorus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see, but how do you know that they produced 10 thousands and not 25 ? They say how much they sold in the yearly report, also they say how much they wanted to produce at first, but how do you know how many they produced in the end ? and thanks for the help

And btw, it was 10.581 in 2007 + 1328 in 2008 by the 2 yearly sold reports :)
Edited by Adorus
07/02/2012 10:48 pm
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commems's Avatar
United States
12279 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2012  11:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When coins are first released, most of them have a listed maximum mintage that can't be exceeded. Not all coins reach their maximums, so the final mintage for non-sell-out coins is determined by adding the sales figures available in the RCM's Annual Report for the year of issue and the following year. Any coins remaining in inventory after their sales period is closed are destroyed.

So, if a coin has a max mintage of 25,000 but only sells 10,000, the final number of available coins is 10,000.
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
789 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2012  11:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shopaholic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So does that mean the Mint would stop selling a coin (to both general public and dealers) after the coin was released for a certain period of time? And is that usually one year? Thanks!
Valued Member
TIPIT's Avatar
Canada
233 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2012  11:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TIPIT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Concerning the mintage... one very bad decision about mintage was taken by Perth Mint (Australia) this year.
They have their bullion serie of Kookaburra since 1990. First years, the serie wasn't that popular so real mintage were below official ones (as low as 74k for an official mintage of 300k).
With these "real" mintage, some years were difficult to get and had a nice premium, for a more than 20-years serie, people completed their collection, etc.

Anyway, long story short, Peth Mint decided last year to complete the official mintage and RE-mint some 1992 and other years coin! And this was a REAL RE-mint... I mean they didn't mint new coin with same design and two dates or something, they actually RE-minted "official 1992 coins", the exact same coin, twenty years later!! Guess what, older 1992 coin just lose their premium as new GEMs were available at the Mint and all over the world!

They justify this in saying that as the official mintage was not reached, they haven't "broke their words" as they just reminted to the original and official limited mintage of 300k....
I don't know if I can link to another forum here, if not please delete but it's explaining this, and it seems they have done the same thing with many years: https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=103324
And even if they haven't done it yet, many years have lost their premium!

So, I'm not sure if RCM could potentially do the same or something in their by-laws forbid them to do so... but I really hope there is!!

Take the nuthatch as an example: Very high premium, very rare. RCM decide tomorrow to RE-mint the remaining 12-13k that were destroyed back then. Goodbye premium, goodbye money that one just spent to complete his collection, as brand new GEM nuthatch would be available to order officially at the mint for... issue price!

Anyway, I don't want to scare anybody, but honestly, I wouldn't be that comfortable having a few nuthatch (or any other coin that has a high premium because of low "real" mintage over the official one BTW) in my hands right now if RCM could do the same anytime.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
789 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2012  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shopaholic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@TIPIT: Thanks for sharing.

It looks like the Perth Mint has just successfully downgraded their brand.
Pillar of the Community
dialog_gvf's Avatar
Canada
1581 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2012  4:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dialog_gvf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

^^^ It would undoubtedly result in a class-action if the RCM tried that stunt.
Rest in Peace
Dcadon's Avatar
Canada
1360 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2012  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dcadon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wouldn't have a concern - taking the nuthatch as an example - if they were to mint a new nuthatch with today's date. It would allow more frugal collectors to complete there set - in appearance anyway - at a reasonable price. To re-mint with a previous date however, I would think constitutes fraud on their part ( Perth Mint as an example) as they were effectively falsifying the date of production and/or release of the 'new' coins.
Valued Member
TIPIT's Avatar
Canada
233 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2012  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TIPIT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Obviously, if the "new" nuthatch has the actual date (2012), it's not a problem at all.
It's if the remint some exactly the same as the other, with 2007 date and not distinctive mark to see it's a remint.

This is what Perth Mint did and it seems it's not a fraud... so for me Perth Mint will never be a buy-and-hold... ever! If they include something in their by-laws that they can't remint, maybe I'll reconsider but they just compromised ALL of their coin value. Even the ones who were produced at their full mintage, people will not differentiate.
Anyway...
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kuh_85's Avatar
Canada
2366 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2012  12:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To go back to the original question ...
3207 is the mintage given in the Charlton Catalogue, Vol 2, 2nd Edition, 2011 for this particular coin.

I certainly don't know for sure but I've speculated on another thread that the mint doesn't produce all the coins at once. They'll do smaller runs and see how demand develops before deciding whether to do the next one or not. This would also explain why some of the coins on their website are 'Awaiting Stock' rather than 'Sold Out'; they're waiting for the next production run. IE the total mintage may be 10,000 possible but they only produce batches of 1,000 at a time and the second batch is only produced if the first is selling well etc.
Edited by kuh_85
07/04/2012 12:16 am
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