Pillars - Fake Or Not

i am by no means an expert but all look like very poor castings.

if you are unsure its telling you something. go with your gut.

MathieuMa You make an interesting comment


Unfortunately once you are exposed to the facts about forgery you are likely to "over-react" and see fakes everywhere. This happens to everyone at first. You need to start with each coin with NO pre drawn conclusions and treat the decision based on the facts at hand.

I look for certain clues that COUD point to a forgery. Some are more conclusive that others. But I maintain that it is always a PREPONDERANCE of evidence that tips the scale.

So in this case, we have three coins from the same seller. This could mean they are all fakes or the seller makes all his coins look bad by poor photography.

If the seller is not familiar to me - I check him out. Where is he located - I check his feedback - and the I check the other items he is offering. If he is offering an across the board listing of fake types that look bad - you have a good answer.

But if as in this case - The seller is in Mexico - he is selling a range of relatively good looking material including one with an old envelope and description that sounds right - he also is offering a selection of VERY nice material - his feedback is perfect - he shows the items sold in the open and the ones available for review are also good looking - many of the coin types offered are not seen as fakes.

He is not an OLD old member with a recently activated ID - he is selling slowly over time. He is also not a brand new guy that suddenly arrives with all high end material. He communicates in Spanish (font used in text includes a Mexican explanation point)) and has customers in Mexico.

So all signs are GREEN so far.

Now the three coins. I had already looked at the three coins for my ebay statistics records. The 1838 is as you say the LEAST suspect based on the appearance of the coin. I own a Shipwreck example that could be a cousin of this one. Same date different die pair - similar variety of corrosion and discoloration but in a far different pattern. I see nothing that condemns the coin as a fake - BUT it is overvalued.

I noticed when looking at his other coins that the seller is not offering bargain prices, so he is not luring novice bidders. I also noticed that he may not have a great grasp of numismatics - for example look at the low grade 2R with a heavy clash that he wants $100 as an opener. He miss classifies the error.

The other two coins do resemble cast coins because the surfaces - especially the first one which has heavily eroded surfaces. But the erosion looks correct, it appears to be eroding INTO the coin surface and NONE of the bumps likely extend beyond original field level. It could not be graded but I do believe it is real. There is a retained spur that is struck in - above the Kings name on the reverse in the dentils. It is slightly opened by corrosive effects - looks perfectly real. The coin is $300 for openers - simply NOT WORTH that much - in my opinion.

The 1734 does have a few points of suspicion at least for me. First the central portions both sides are far too weak. The edge lettering and dentils are sharp as is the die was better at that point or the flan was deeply upset. The dentils are NOT distorted by the edge application so it was edged FIRST and then struck. This is less likely to have happened in 1734 but can not be guaranteed. There are some suspicious RAISED lumps on this one - near the left mint mark and between the 1 and 7. Finally there is either a deep area of edge corrosion - or a test cut at the N in VNUM. It also starts at $300.

So my conclusion is that we have an honest but poorly informed seller who is actually in Mexico. He is offering coins AS HE GOT them from a collection that had some breadth. I would buy from him if he had something that I felt was my type.

I think the first and last are real - the middle one may be real but it may be fake.

wade I also agree with you - that you follow your gut feelings, Counterfeit Detection is in my opinion an art when done from photographs - in is not a science until the coins are in hand.