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 Replies: 39 / Views: 7,172 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
I'm near the finish line on my Mercury dime set, so I'm going to start diverting some of my hobby cash over to getting a real photography setup going. So I'm in the learning phase of shopping for a DSLR, lenses, bellows, stand/tripod, etc. I've been leaning toward a Nikon, because my friend has a Nikon, and I'm more familiar with their stuff. I also figured it would be easier for us to borrow lenses and whatnot from each other. But I know there are a lot of Canon fans here, so I'd like to here the pitch for why I might want to go with a Canon, specifically with respect to coin photography. The models I'm currently looking at: Nikon D3200 (the newest entry level model) Nikon D5100 (the next level up, but actually a tad cheaper because it's a bit older, also available as a body only, but I guess I probably want the kit lens for general purpose photography) Canon T2i/550D (similar price range) Canon T3i/600D (a tad more expensive, but more bells/whistles and I like the articulating screen) |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
I'd like to here the pitch for why I might want to go with a Canon, specifically with respect to coin photography. This is simple, even though I have nothing against Nikon. They make excellent cameras and excellent lenses. But they suffer by comparison to Canon for the specific task of macro photography. Here's why: 1) When you think of how a camera's shutter works, you probably think "something snaps open and then snaps closed in the length of the exposure time." That's how it worked when cameras were mechanical, film-using tools. But not now. Now it's done with curtains. The first curtain rolls open in front of the sensor, followed quickly by the second curtain which ends the exposure. That first curtain is capable of inducing the slightest vibration, totally irrelevant to normal photography but (as Ray found out when he switched to Canon) able to affect the outcome of a magnified coin photo. Canon has a "Silent Mode," an operating procedure where the first screen stays open and does not move. The sensor turns on, and the second screen snaps closed. Nikon does not have this feature. Ray's Nikon images (already staggeringly good) improved visibly when he switched to a T2i using the exact same lenses and lighting. 2) Canon bundles the remote shooting software - allowing you to control the whole shooting session from your computer - for free with the camera. Nikon charges you for their version of the software. If I were working outdoors, even outdoor macro photography, I'd be as willing to shoot Nikon as Canon. And even with all I've said above, I'm waiting with true anticipation for the upcoming Nikon D600. It might be enough camera for me to consider switching. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4132 Posts |
All my research has basically said the same thing - "both are great, the differences are at the margins and it's mostly personal preference." But coin photography is pushing one of those margins, so that's why I ask...
So the Nikons don't offer a quiet mode to eliminate the mirror slap and shutter vibrations? I have looked at some old threads, and there really does seem to be a big difference.
The free tethering software is nice... There is third party software too, some of it is good and pretty cheap. I don't think the relatively minor, one-time cost of tethering software is going to make up my mind though.
I'm not buying one tomorrow or anything, so I guess I have time to mull it over. I am leaning toward the t3i right now though. Maybe the D600 will be out before I buy, and I'll get to enjoy a little more analysis paralysis. If it's a full frame sensor, it'll probably be out of my price range though.
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Valued Member
Canada
331 Posts |
+1 for SsuperDdave's advice. Easy tethering and the elimination of shutter vibration are two big bonuses for using Canon for indoor macro photography. I was fortunate in that I was already using the Canon system when I came here :)
Aside: In general, I do most of my photography outside with birds as my chief subject. I used to be an avid Nikon user, and I still like most aspects of their system. I switched to Canon for purely financial reasons; it seems that the very high-end lenses can be obtained, both new and used, for less money in the Canon system than Nikon. Both are solid DSLR platforms that I would recommend to anyone for general photography. The more specialized you get in a specific photographic field, the more you will likely get steered into one brand over the other. A good example of this is sports photography. If you watch a sporting event on tv in which the sports photographers are easy to pick out (e.g. tennis), you'll usually see many more Canon lenses (grey) than Nikon (black).
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Valued Member
United States
275 Posts |
Captain
I don't think that you can go wrong with any of the camera bodies that you have listed. As far as lenses go, for use with a bellows or extension I would recommend a 50mm or so focal length. Use it in manual mode and use a remote actuator.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4037 Posts |
Canon's EFSC has a big advantage over Nikon for magnifications from around 1:2 and above. This pretty much says that for coin photography, especially for smaller coins or variety shots, Canon is the way to go. For outdoor Macro work up to 1:2, either are fine. Hence My T2i is permanently mounted on the coin setup, and my D7000 goes with me on trips, with a 16-85 and usually a new Macro lens to test out. I rarely ever try for anything above 1:2 handheld, so don't see any disadvantage to the Nikon, and I like the D7000's ability to use any AI, AIS, AF, or AFS lens. When I bought the T2i, I bought body only since I knew it would be dedicated to the coin photo setup using esoteric lenses.
Comparing Nikon's Camera Control Pro 2 versus ControlMyNikon vs Canon EOS Utility, I much prefer the EOS utility. Its 100% zoom mode is superior and makes critical focusing easier than on the Nikon software. CMN is far behind either, unless you plan to do a lot of focus stacking or other external equipment control.
At this point I am neither a Nikon or Canon guy. I just try to use the best equipment for the particular task.
Ray
Edited by rmpsrpms
07/14/2012 12:30 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1549 Posts |
When I bought my first Canon DSLR, the then current Nikons would not meter through the lens using lenses that did not have their contacts. That meant the Canon was better when used with old enlarging lenses etc. I assume this has changed now since no one mentions it as a problem. Who knows which model Nikons had this problem? I now have 4 Canons and enough lenses that it would take quite some reason to change. I see advantages in both systems but the argument that makes the most sense to me is buying the camera that allows you to borrow accessories. Both are good camera systems but it is hard to beat compatibility with well equipped friends.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4037 Posts |
I think all the latest Nikons will meter through the lens with manual lenses. That includes D3000, D5000, D5100, D7000, etc. I have the D5000 and D7000 and both will meter. The D7000 goes a step farther and will allow entering data for "non-CPU" lenses, and will auto focus with AF lenses. I love the D7000 and use it for all my non-coin work. Both my D5000 and D7000 work great with Camera Control Pro 2 software, but the software is a bit expensive...Ray
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
I think the EFSC is going to be the deciding factor for me. My current interests in order of importance are: 1) Full-coin shots of dimes 2) Full-coin shots of nickels and cents and closeups for varieties 3) General photography 4) Full-coin shots of other denominations Which makes it pretty much a no-brainer from everything I've read here. So, in addition to the camera itself (pretty much settled on the T3i), I'm gonna be shopping for: 1) Bellows 2) Copy stand / microscope stand / tripod 3) Lens to use with bellows (maybe I could get away with the kit lens for a while?) What specific qualities am I looking for in a bellows? I guess EOS mounts would be a plus. I can avoid the cost of the adapters and the length they add to the minimum extension... What sort of stand should I get? I assume ebay is the best place to look for all of this cheap... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
627 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
I guess I need some clarification on one subject, forgive my ignorance... I guess I need a focusing rail in addition to the bellows? Or a copy stand or microscope stand with very fine adjustment? Or do some bellows come with a focusing rail built in?
That is to say, the extension of the bellows is used to get the right magnification, then I would focus by moving the whole rig up or down somehow... Right?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
Ok, there's something like this Canon bellows which seems to be nice and have a focusing rail but I guess I have no idea what the mount is. It seems like it's actually a lot easier to adapt M42 to my (hypothetical) EOS camera than even the older Canon mounts and gives more flexibility on the lens end too. And there's this Pentax Auto Bellows but I don't know if it's actually M42 or something else, or if it includes and adapter or what, but it's got a lowish starting bid, so maybe I can get it for a good price. And there's another Pentax, but I don't know if that's a good price. I don't really need the slide copier dodad, but it wouldn't actually go to waste, I've got stacks of old family slides.  |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
All nice equipment, but only the first Pentax is at what I'd consider a "bargain" starting price. The Canon is probably worth the money, but the more expensive Pentax (IMO) is not.
All appear to have focusing rails, making your choice of mount much easier. The cheaper Pentax looks to be an M42 mount with an adapter of some sort already installed - note the knurled ring - so adapters won't be a problem. Looks like a standard 1/4" camera thread for mounting. Nice pieces. I don't think you'll go wrong with any of them.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
627 Posts |
That Pentax dovetail rail bellows is what I use. It's a great piece of equipment, but the pictures of that $29 starting price one are bound to be confusing to someone who hasn't seen one of these in person. I'm almost 100% sure it is probably an M42. The silver-colored coupler you see sticking out about 3/4 of an inch on the one end actually goes in the other side. (To avoid damage to the M42 threads, when storing it is common to remove this coupler and screw it into the lens side.) The piece you see sticking out is smooth metal with a groove on one end (showing), and is threaded on the other end (currently screwed in where your lens will eventually go). You would unscrew this coupler, and insert the grooved end into the other side, and then secure it with the small turn screw that tightens in the groove. If you go with a Canon camera body, you will need to adapt these male M42 threads to your EOS camera -- adaptors are relatively cheap and easy to find (as low as $4 on ebay from USA shippers). |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
627 Posts |
Forgot to mention, but if you can get an M42 dovetail type Pentax Bellows for anything less than about $90 or so it's a good deal (in my opinion). I was impatient when I bought mine back in Dec 2011 and paid $130, but the thing was 100% mint condition (and I don't regret it one single bit!). I have since purchased 2 more (a back up for me and one for a friend), both in the $80 range....but you have to be patient to find those. Your $29 start price auction looks to be a good opportunity of that kind!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
Alright, at least I can feel satisfied that I found the right kind of thing and I have some kind of expectation of price range. I'm in no hurry so I can wait until I find one at a good price. I'm gonna keep an eye on Ray's "el-cheapo lenses" thread and see if I can't start gathering in all the bits I need over the next few months.
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Replies: 39 / Views: 7,172 |
Posted 07/13/2012 1:08 pm
