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1867 Shield W/Rays...bad Strike?

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jefftodd34's Avatar
United States
26 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2012  10:05 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jefftodd34 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
What do you think of the quality of the shield on the obverse of this nickel? It's graded AU55 by PCGS, but the lines and columns on the shield look pretty bad to me.

Would appreciate your views as I was considering buying this but just can't pull the trigger.

1867-Shield-W/Rays...bad-Strike?

1867-Shield-W/Rays...bad-Strike?
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TreyB's Avatar
United States
25 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2012  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TreyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks AU to me. The lack of detail looks to be caused by a poor strike, not wear.
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Gyrene7483's Avatar
United States
1704 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2012  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gyrene7483 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your coin looks typical for the grade it was assigned. If it had very clear lines in both sections of the shield you would have a premium coin. The shield on the Shield nickels are notorious for poor details due to the dies losing detail from use. Even uncirculated coins will look like they are worn in the top section of the shiled and on the columns in the bottom part all from dies being used too long before replacement. What to look for is actual wear from circulation and mint luster. Shield nickels in my opinion are some of the most difficult to grade because of the above reasons. Even the rays tend to be poorly defined along their entire length as you can see on your coin.

I am having a very difficult time finding a Shield nickel with rays that I like enough to put into my 7070 album, they are just so poorly struck.

Ed
ANA LM-3175
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oih82w8's Avatar
United States
7840 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2012  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The weak strike on the obverse is made up for the strong reverse. There appears to be Longacre doubling on the right arrow head on the obverse as well.

I like it for type!
Edited by oih82w8
07/23/2012 11:15 am
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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2012  11:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is from weak strike. IMO, the key here is the luster. If the lack of details was from wear, there would be very little if any luster remaining. This one looks like it has most of its mint luster. This one looks accurately graded.
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usc96's Avatar
United States
291 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2012  11:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add usc96 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Shield side isn't the best, but it looks better than most of the rays' side I've seen, and I've been looking at a lot lately. The 1866 are worse when it comes to finding one with a good strike on the rays' side. Is that why you are looking at a 67?
Edited by usc96
07/22/2012 11:47 pm
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2012  02:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There must be a great temptation to fake these, but I get the gut feeling that this one is OK, because there are lots of sharp features almost everywhere else except those fine lines on the shield, and perhaps details on the leaves.

To pick this one as a dud needs a more educated and specialised opinion than mine.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2012  02:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sel I'm sure they do get faked a lot. PCGS said it was legit though so Id be confident buying this one if it were up for sale
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jefftodd34's Avatar
United States
26 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2012  03:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jefftodd34 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@USC96 - I'm going for the 67 b/c it has a lower mintage than the 66. I'm doing a type set of key dates and since only the 66 & 67 have rays, I'm going with the lower mintage.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2012  09:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
looks like the date is doubled also on this coin but I think AU condition is fair for this coin
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52Raymo's Avatar
United States
8516 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2012  10:29 am  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That reverse is a beauty !
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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jefftodd34's Avatar
United States
26 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2012  11:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jefftodd34 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks all.

Your input is helpful and greatly appreciate as usual!

Jeff
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Moe145's Avatar
United States
8904 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2012  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moe145 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I understand the US Mint had a tremendously difficult time when they first started minting coins contaning nickel. The hardness of the metal just trashed the coins' dies VERY rapidly; much faster than any other metal type.

I think if the Mint found a die that didn't crack, they kept using it well beyond the time it should have been retired, detail-wise (like this obverse one)!!


Yours does look original and I agree the lack of detail is from the die used at the Mint.
Edited by Moe145
07/23/2012 12:12 pm
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2012  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a case of an old worn-out obverse die near the end of its useful life paired with a much newer reverse die. The reverse is very nice with almost fully detailed rays and stars.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2012  1:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes I'm sure the mint workers hated the nickel five cent pieces (I know the workers in the die shop did). With the other denominations they would put a pair of dies in the press and have to swap them out about every four or five days. With the nickel five cent pieces they had to swap the dies out on average every 4 or 5 hours. (I'm assuming the mint was working only single shift at the time)
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