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 Replies: 32 / Views: 6,695 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
why isn't EZ-est considered cleaning?
Heh, you have just waded into the grey area of the numismatic pool  For some background, E-Z-Est is a commercial coin cleaner composed of sulfuric acid and thiourea and it is primarily designed to remove tarnish/toning. If done correctly on a coin that is a proper candidate, a quick dip in a dilute solution is virtually undetectable and could improve the eye appeal of a coin. The problem is that most coins are not an ideal candidate for dipping and can be impaired by the procedure. An uncirculated or proof coin with light toning or haze makes for the best choice and should(but not always) have an improvement in eye appeal. Copper coins, grades below high AU, and thick dark toning should not be dipped unless you are really itching to kill a coin  As for the grey area I mentioned earlier, some collectors swear that the use of E-Z-Est is a graven sin while others purchase E-Z-Est by the gallon. Most do not fall to either of those extremes but many collectors do tend to be liberal with dipping as evidenced by the sheer number of coins on the market with dull lifeless surfaces and other obvious signs of improper dipping. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
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You are taking a mini-sample and then passing out bad advice.
Simple as that. Actually what is simple here is your statement. This is the second time I have done this experiment. And perhaps if that was the only time I had ever used it you might have a point. However, it should be fairly obvious that it is NOT the first time I have done this. As far as I am concerned YOUR advice is bad, narrow minded and ignorant of the facts clearly shown here. So why not just say you disagree with me instead of insulting me and my experience and knowledge? joker, ummmm, I wasnt even REMOTELY suggesting using this on copper. This entire discussion has been about silver coins. amida, that IS an issue. Dips time and time again. It IS cumulative and results in the stripped down dull coins biokemist mentioned. But that is a completely different thing from the point being made here. A SINGLE dip of up to even 30 seconds does not make a coin into a lusterless hunk of silver. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2150 Posts |
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joker, ummmm, I wasnt even REMOTELY suggesting using this on copper. This entire discussion has been about silver coins.
Besides the "test" coins, no distinction was made. Quote:
I am simply saying more than a couple seconds does NOT damage the coin to the extent one is led to believe.
My main concern is that a new collector will read this and not make the distinction. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
I have made that distinction in both threads the entire time. AND I specify elsewhere. If a new hobbyist doesn't make that distinction, their inability to read and comprehend is not anything I can control.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36841 Posts |
Like anything else, it is always best to experiment on a common coin that can go into circulation until a person knows more about the proper use of the product.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
smokeriderdon: Do all coin collectors a favor and quit posting on this topic. Every post you've made in this thread is bad advice for any collector and could mislead people into believing you know what you're talking about.
The fact is no one should ever use E-Z-est or any other acid dip. Experts can perform dips for 1-2 seconds without damaging their coins IF they handle the coins carefully, use proper rinsing techniques, and know how to dry them safely. Idiotic comments about for 10 to 30 seconds are just plain crazy.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1227 Posts |
Okay, so this is just a thought, but why has nobody suggested using the "by degrees" method? Dip it for 2 seconds, discover it didn't clean off all the crap, dip it for another 2 seconds, rinse and dry. Is there some practical reason that doesn't work?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
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why isn't EZ-est considered cleaning? No "grey" area here....it IS cleaning |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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Actually what is simple here is your statement. This is the second time I have done this experiment. And perhaps if that was the only time I had ever used it you might have a point. However, it should be fairly obvious that it is NOT the first time I have done this.
As far as I am concerned YOUR advice is bad, narrow minded and ignorant of the facts clearly shown here. So why not just say you disagree with me instead of insulting me and my experience and knowledge? What your missing is he is just voicing his opinion, not insulting you at all. You are taking it all as an insult because someone doesn't believe you. And think about it, why should they when so many post things on the internet that are completely false and/or irroneoous. Remember that just because you SAY you did this dipping, does not mean you really did that at all. You gave your ideas and thoughts and so did he. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
620 Posts |
I dip toned or discolered silver coins for 6 to 10 seconds depends on the coin.
They always come out looking better than they did before the dip.
I like silver coins to look as they did when minted. Not toned or brown or black.
I have never dipped a proof coin as none in my collection need it.
I also have a small jewelry cleaning kit under 5 bucks 2 years ago
it works as well as the dip does.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
BH, do me a favor...never mind, you arent worth my effort. You dont agree with me, fine. Shut up and dont post to me. I will continue to post what I KNOW to be true because I DO have decades of experience and DO know what I am talking about.
carl, telling me my advice is bad IS insulting. And he followed with more of his ignorance. Just because there is false info out there does not automatically mean all info is bad. And if I told you you were a liar, I am pretty sure you would not be appreciative. I do understand your point, but here on this board is a different case.
Foxwoods, I disagree. The term cleaning as is commonly used, indicates something that visibly and markedly damages a coin. Things that cause scratches and the like. As I have said and shown, a reasonable dip does not overly damage a coin in the sense people mean when they say "cleaned". Probably semantics, but thats that.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
I think I can safely say that anytime you put acid on the surface of a coin you remove a bit of that surface. That is why it looks "clean". Soak it too much and it looks unnatural. Cleaning is obviously the wrong term here. There are some products that do not affect the actual surface metal but acceptably "clean" the coin. ...MS70 acts as a mild soap to "clean" the grime away...metal not affected. It will not remove toning/tarnish ...Acetone removes grease/some fingerprints/goobers. It does not affect the metal surface of the coin and will not remove tarnish. There are quite a few knowledgeable coin experts that dip ALL their ASE's and 5 oz. pucks in acetone before submitting to prevent milk spots. ...EZ-est is an acid that removes a bit of the coin surface. Soak one for an hour and see what happens. It's excessive use is detectable by TPG's and will get a coin body bagged. It may look "cleaned" but it is really an altered surface. If you want nice shiny coins then go for it...or use Brillo. A true numismatist will do nothing that changes even the appearance of the coin. Quote:
The term cleaning as is commonly used, indicates something that visibly and markedly damages a coin Cleaning a coin is when you do something to a coin that makes it "cleaner" than it was originally. It does not have to be aggressive or damaging. That is how I and most collectors use the word... Edited by Foxwoods Man
08/02/2012 07:40 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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carl, telling me my advice is bad IS insulting. And he followed with more of his ignorance. Just because there is false info out there does not automatically mean all info is bad. And if I told you you were a liar, I am pretty sure you would not be appreciative. I do understand your point, but here on this board is a different case.
No nothing is different. People everywhere are different and have different points of views. Telling you your advice is bad is just an opinion. You gave yours, he gave his. Since we are in the USA, that is what we all can do. It's just freedom of speach. AND Foxwoods Man: your statements are right on. I agree completely.  A cleaned coin is a cleaned coin. Sort of like giving a Mummy from the Egyptian Pyramids a bath. Not a good thing I would think. Contrary to that though is I sort of like all my coins to look pretty so I really don't mind a cleaned coin. Just not really resellable to easily. But since I never sell coins, that too makes no difference. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
I am with smokeriderdon on this one.
There are a few people on here that are insulting with their responses.
When you write for someone to quit posting because what you are saying is wrong or incorrect .. that is insulting.
Post how you disagree, do not insult the person.
One wrote that true numismatic person would never clean a coin .. that to is a insulting statement.
Most coin shops sell products to improve a problem coins appearance... EZ-Est .. MS-70 ..etc.. many collectors use them.
NGC has their processes they use, to fix problem coins.
Clean .. cleaning is just a general term that most use.
If you have never cleaned a problem coin, then you will never learn how to do it. I have seen many coins sit in a dealers inventory for months .. years, because of a problem. Problems like finger prints, glue or tape residue, paint, dark toning etc. If the coin is cleaned right and the problem removed the coins sell quickly.
I am not saying a coin that has been cleaned should sell at the same price as a original coin of the same grade.
If done right a cleaned coin will sell better then it would with the problem.
I am not sure why some members need to reply to posts in negative ways. Some here will read something they disagree with, and they attack. Not just on this subject. I guess some people think if you are not doing things just the same way they do it .. then it is wrong.
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New Member
United States
49 Posts |
Well, when I posted my original topic, I didn't really expect to create such a heated debate ...  There have been a lot of great suggestions and explanations from both "sides" of the "argument" and I really do appreciate that from everyone that has participated ... So far, I think smokeridredon has captured the spirit of my original questions the best, so I would like to thank you specifically for your great input and enthusiasm in trying to find a way to address both parts of my concern, both to improve the appearance, and avoid damage to the coins. And thanks to amida17 and another thanks to smokeriderdon for the great pics on the experiments with coins, for the time and effort put in to that. |
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Replies: 32 / Views: 6,695 |
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Posted 07/31/2012 1:55 pm
