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 Replies: 56 / Views: 4,655 |
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
TPG's and their slabs are reproached everywhere I look. The Letters page of Coin World has at least one letter per week from and "old time collector" who has been driven out of the hobby by TPG's. I often feel a kind of reverse elitism from such letters and complaints. Here are the reasons slabs are important to me: (please feel free to argue with me) 1. Buying: I am not a professional coin grader. Raw coin dealers who grade their coins accurately are an endangered species. I have bought raw coins from some dealers, including some of the most respected rare coin dealers in America, that were wildly over graded. The last non-slabbed silver dollar I bought, for example, was from Stack's 2006 Americana sale. It was catalogued as "very choice BU" and only "a tick or two away from gem." I sent that coin, a scarce 1928, to PCGS. It came back AU58. I sent it back to be regraded. Same grade. I sent it to NGC and got a MS61. I still don't know what is holding that coin back. Before that incident, I bought many coins advertised by dealers as BU that came back AU, but none of them cost $900. 2. Keeping: Slabs are convenient, safe places to house coins. If you drop them, the chances of damage are much lower. So instead of coins sliding around the insides of Dansco albums, falling onto the floor, accidentally acquiring big fingerprints on them for the rest of recorded history, or another or lying a thousand different places in my apt., I have a number of NGC boxes (like their registry, NGC's boxes are suitable for storing coins slabbed by different services) in a single place , 3. Established value: Slabs from the two major services establish a coin's value. I love collecting. I especially love collecting coins that have value, and that value increases over time. I don't think being an "investor" and a "collector" are mutually exclusive terms. P.S. I think ANACS is an excellent service too and way under-rated. I wish more people would buy coins slabbed by them. I have one coin in an ICG slab and the grade seems reasonable to me. Edited by Stephen420
03/08/2007 1:39 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
675 Posts |
I agree with everything you said in your post! I have gotten back into collecting in the past few months after a several year hiatus. I am finally at the point where I can buy coins that have some value, and I just don't want to get ripped off. Although PCGS and NGC aren't perfect, I trust their grades a lot better than a random dealer who may or may not be trying to rip me off. If you buy a coin from a dealer as MS-65 and it's overgraded, and then can only get MS-63 money if you try to resell it that can be a several hundred dollar error. I am not a good enough coin grader to avoid these type of mistakes. This doesn't apply for common dates graded XF or below, but for key dates or high grade items, I will stick with certified coins. PS. Saw your collection of Peace dollars... absolutely incredible!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
675 Posts |
One other thing... I am buying most of my coins on ebay, and I think it is even more important to buy certified when you don't have the coin in hand to look for flaws. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1083 Posts |
I pretty much agree except for one thing. If you think grading isn't subjective - you just haven't read the variability of opinion that can occur between TPG companies and even within the same company. Buy the coin, not the slab! What that means to me is that there is just no substitute for knowledge. Everyone should learn how to grade the series they collect. Just because a coin is slabbed should be no guarantee of a particular grade. You should be able to have an informed opinion on an accurate grade for any coin you own, slabbed or raw. If a you have a coin slabbed and they over grade it significantly (yes it happens all the time) than you may learn in the future that the slab didn't establish the value, or protect your investment. Finally, without some expertise on grading how will you ever know if you got your money's worth from the grading company? |
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
Hi Stephen, You are 100% right in having your opinion and reasons to buy slabs. I hope you did not take my comments personally.. I have some slabs myself. I do prefer raw coins but if I do on a rare occasion buy a high grade "older" coin it is usually slabbed. Like you I am not an expert grader, and to buy a coin that I am not really familiar with the slab is a safe way for me to buy odd coins in high grades. I don't think I will ever have enough slabs to register and do not think I would if I did. I do agree that for storage and handling slabs cannot be beat. Tony |
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Valued Member
 United States
411 Posts |
Hi Tony: I certainly didn't take your comments personally.  Don't ever think that. I broached the subject because the discussion seems to me, too often, one-sided. Not that the TPG's need me to defend them, but there are advantages that should be noted. Also, I buy raw coins, mostly type coins. But eventually I'll have them graded, partly just to know the grade. I definitely believe coin grading is, in part, subjective. But there are objective elements as well, which is the whole point of ANA's grading standards, to choose one. On the other hand, I don't send mint products to be graded. I don't see the point, and here's where I get burned up with the TPG's. I think it's a racket, and the value of such slabs is too volatile. The only way I'd buy a slabbed commemorative would be that it was the best one available for the price. Since Mint products are almost always perfect or near so, it seems a waste of money to me. (I did have my Buffalo $50 coin graded because the packaging of those coins - the unc's, not the proofs - was lousy and I wanted it housed safely. It got a 70, incidentally.  ) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
675 Posts |
Good point by Okie-coin.... Even though most of the coins I am buying are slabbed, I don't just look for say an MS-65 Walking Liberty half and buy the first decent priced one I find. I look at the pictures and try to determine whether or not it is a good example for the grade. If it is imo, then if the price is right I go for it! |
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
okie-colin wrote:
"Buy the coin, not the slab! What that means to me is that there is just no substitute for knowledge. Everyone should learn how to grade the series they collect. Just because a coin is slabbed should be no guarantee of a particular grade. You should be able to have an informed opinion on an accurate grade for any coin you own, slabbed or raw."
I totally agree with you, and am glad you pointed it out. There are many aspects to this issue and every collector should learn about what they are spending their money on.
And Thundercoin: Thanks for the nice words on my silver dollars.
Edited by Stephen420
03/07/2007 5:01 pm
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Valued Member
United States
256 Posts |
To be honest, I don't really care at all for slabbed coins. I do have them but the only reason I ever send a coin in to be certified is for authentication purposes only. I would never use, let alone pay, a TPG just to grade a coin or buy a slabbed coin because of the grade on it's label. "Buy the coin, not the slab!"This seems to be a practice that is either being forgotten or ignored by many of today's collectors. You seem to see and hear more discussions on which TPG to use, Which TPG is the best, Which TPG has the best holder, First Strike labels, Early release, etc., etc. I have never seen so many "common" coins being slabbed that a couple of years ago would never even be considered for certification. Sadly, IMHO, new collectors are being taught that the coins are silver but the slabs are golden! There seems to more interest and emphasis on the slab than the coin itself anymore! Call me old fashioned but I still prefer to hold and admire a coin in my hand and not a plastic box! But that's just me and I know everyone is entitled to how they view and collect the coins they love.  Being in the burial business, I guess I just feel that coffins belong in the cemetery and not in the coin cabinet! |
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
Yes indeed buy the coin not the slab. It does bother me that some slabs are traded like a commodity. I agree with the modern mint products, to slab them and pay crazy high prices for something that is part of thousands and thousands of the same grade is nuts. How rare can they be when such a high percentage are graded 69-70. Eagles, I just can't get my mind around slabbing them, they are melt pcs.
Tony
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts |
quote:
Sadly, IMHO, new collectors are being taught that the coins are silver but the slabs are golden!
Take this for what it's worth from a 6 month collector. What I have learned in a short time is that there are a lot of scammers out there, typically due to the computer age. I find myself buying slabbed coins to protect myself and my investment. I see it as a hobby that I now enjoy, and an investment at the same time. Call me crazy. quote:
Call me old fashioned but I still prefer to hold and admire a coin in my hand and not a plastic box!
Again, same instance as the last. I have read post after post about having fingerprints on coins and ruining them. While I agree that lower value coins are not as affected per say, some of the things that I purchase in my opinion are high dollar items, and I'd hate to take the chance of destroying its value due to my own stupidity. Of course, SE, I am certainly not trying to single out your post, I am just trying to enlighten some folks on how I look at things being a new collector. I love this hobby and the friends that I have made, and I love my coins. I for one don't think people are being completely honest if they say they collect with no care for the value of their own collection. This is money and it will always have some sort of value, whether it be face value or more. You don't see near as many people collecting kleenex's. Maybe because they have no value, regardless of age or condition. |
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Valued Member
United States
256 Posts |
quote:
Again, same instance as the last. I have read post after post about having fingerprints on coins and ruining them.
quote:
some of the things that I purchase in my opinion are high dollar items, and I'd hate to take the chance of destroying its value due to my own stupidity.
Brings up another point. Imagine a slabbed world where the collector never touches the coin. Does the collector ever learn the proper technique of how to properly hold a raw coin? So in the end which collector is most likely to leave the fingerprint? The inexperienced one that would actually handle a high-dollar coin without gloves thus leaving the damaging fingerprint or the collector with 30 years experience that knows better?  Edited by SE
03/07/2007 7:50 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts |
Agreed SE. As I stated, I'm not trying to argue. I have read to wear cotton gloves, hold the coin on edge, etc etc. I'm 37 years old and refuse to be "coddled" by anyone, lifetime collector or not. Cotton gloves don't protect you from dropping the coin at the worst possible time when you're not over top of the pillow you have placed under your most prized possession of a coin just so that you can hold it. This example is as arbitrary as arguing the topic of what is right or wrong, and what a "real coin collector" does and how he/she collects.
However, I will resign the fact that regardless of what I put down and how I try to explain my thoughts, some people will always think there is a right and a wrong, and choose to not just say "I see what your saying".
I have found that for the first time on this forum I am irritated. May be a culmination of things other than this forum, but the replies here have struck a wrong chord with me.
I will end by saying that I will buy what I want to buy, as it is my money and nobody else's. If it's slabbed, and anyone thinks that I am less of a collector because of it, well, I guess it will go unanswered because I have too much respect for this forum to use the words that come to mind.
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Valued Member
United States
394 Posts |
I would like for any of our forum members within CONUS who do not own a slab to let us know. I can't believe that any collector, other than a very newbie or strictly a foreign coin collector, does not own or have any slabs. If you purchased or own a slab, in my opinion, you have no right to lam-bast slabs since that would be hypocritical; Now if you that want to criticize slabs for whatever reason, get rid of your slabs and then fire away. Criticize the TPGs, all you want and even us slab collectors would agree with you that some need to be taken to task. The poor slab is just a tool, who some see fit to use and other's do not.
Berry
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1083 Posts |
Whoa! This is getting too emotional. It's not a moral failing to own or prefer to have slabbed coins. As Tights stated - it is his money to spend as he choses. Raw or slabbed, neither position is the only correct way for a collector. I agree that it is hard to grade a coin from a picture on ebay, and most sellers are way optimistic on grade. That's why I never buy from anyone who doesn't have a no questions asked money back guarantee and believe me I do return coins. I also think slabs offer superior protection for coins. Yes Berry, I do own some slabbed coins. I bought them to go in my 7070 album, but I can't bring myself to crack them out. My only point is that slabs are not the end all to accurate grading. It is a subjective process and a collector is well off to learn how to grade accurately. Peace. Colin |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
I consider a slab a tool, some people consider it a crutch, either way it has it's place. You can't beat a slab from one of the top 3 for ease of resale. Until people stop trying to rip off novices by overgrading there will always be a market for slabs.
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Replies: 56 / Views: 4,655 |
Posted 03/07/2007 3:08 pm
