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 Replies: 8 / Views: 1,470 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Here's an interesting thing I hadn't noticed before. See the vertical striations at either end of IGWT? These are considered to be marks on the die, caused by contact with the feed fingers of the press. Therefore, the die had to be in use for long enough to have had these marks impressed. This isn't as EDS as we might have thought (for the record, Bryan and I discussed this coin privately for a bit before he posted it).
Definitely the correct die pair for V82, though. The existence of the cracks implies there should be examples lacking the cracks, and here's one.
Now, are those feed finger marks on later coins?
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
14454 Posts |
they are not on the two examples I have here (an MS-65 and MS-64) but I do see the end of it (Left hand side) between the N and the top of the wing. I am wondering if when they fixed this it may have been when the die gouge was caused going from the leaf to the wing. I do not see any remnants of it on the other side of IGWT. With this coin not having any die cracks anywhere on the coin, it would still make it the earliest die stage I have ever seen of a VAM-82. It wasn't raining today so I took it outside in the sunlight to look at it and didn't see any die cracks at all, none were even starting to form anywhere on the Obverse or Reverse that I saw
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
This coin brings up another question. We all know the same Reverse was used for the VAM-81 as well and I thought the die gouge was caused by trying to remove evidence of the clash that appears at the same leaf on the VAM-81 so thought the VAM-81 was before the VAM-82. This coin now makes me question if maybe the VAM-82 may have been paired and struck before the VAM-81.
Edit: I looked and I can see a small portion of the "feed finger" marks on the VAM-81 reverse right above the wing on my VAM-81 so it just may mean the 82 was minted before the 81. What does everyone else think about this?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
Interesting I would say and them some!
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Well, if "all" 81's (as said at VAMworld) have the clashmark at the top left of the wreath, it seems kinda obvious that 82 had to precede it....otherwise, where did that clash come from? OTOH, 82 has further-developed die cracking than 81. Except where the opposite is true....compare the plate coins at VAMworld. The second 81 plate coin has cracks at ERIC that 82 does not.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
thats what I'm saying, this coin brings up allot of questions I had not thought of even asking before and with each answer another question arises
And I have never seen a VAM-81 without the clash mark and its about the only thing that distinguishes the 81 Reverse from the 82 reverse that can be seen easily
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Jeez you guys are giving me a headache! I was away from the pooter for the weekend and I come back to this! The coin pictured is lacking the diagnostic die crack below the third right star. I would still be able to ID it as an 82 due the combo of the detached olive leaves on the reverse, long nock and full nostril. The 82 is the only B1 with detached leaves and a full nostril. Concerning the chicken or the egg discussion ... can the common PUPs for the 81 and 82 be attributed to the hubbing die? The clashing and die cracks of course are on the working dies. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
This coin isn't mine and when my friend called me about it he was describing it to me as having the long arrow shaft and disconnected leaf and my next question was about the nostril. When he told me it looked like it didn't have any disconnection in the nostril I told him to look for the crack at the stars and that is where I started getting confused and excited a little as I mentioned above I had never seen a VAM-82 without this crack and thought it may be a different VAM again. This was of course by description alone and I had to wait about 5 or 6 days for him to bring the coin over as he works some weird hours at FedEx Freight. I was kind of hoping for another die pairing but when I finally got it in hand I knew that wasn't the case but still brought up the questions asked in this thread |
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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,470 |
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Posted 08/18/2012 4:23 pm
