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My Latest Pet Project : Getting Silver Back In Circulation

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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  9:54 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
My-Latest-Pet-Project-:-Getting-Silver-Back-In-Circulation

So would anyone here accept or give payments in these? :-)

Meet my latest personal project (I admit somewhat inspired by Shire Silver).

Mostly due to curiosity (as I'm not a gold standard, pay-with-commodities fanatic) I've always wanted to find an easier way to use silver coins in regular everyday transactions. It tends to fascinate people, especially getting them interested in numismatics (I'm the kind of guy who will go out of his way to pay young clerks in dollar coins, $2 bills and halves when appropriate just to watch their faces shine with wonder :-) ).

It will also, over the march of time (barring what happened with aluminum), be a bit of a stay against inflation.

The biggest problems with spending old silver coins I've found, though are (in no particular order):

1) Simple ignorance about their history and value. If you leave them as a tip at, say, a restaurant, the waiter or waitress is more apt to think you gypped them and spend it at face than realize that it has more value than its denomination.

2) Authentication. How does someone know that it's not a fake? Not everyone has the time to do a set of diagnostics if they're paying for a cup of coffee. If it's a generic round or strips, it's not easy, and if it's something recognizable like an ASE, it's too big.

3) Keeping track of what it's worth. Spot prices fluctuate. So it has been, and so it shall be for as long as there is a market.

4) Keeping track of the coins, themselves. A silver dime is worth over $2 (today at least) and it's smaller than a $1 coin. I'm a staunch advocate of the $1 coin, but I do prefer bills for larger denominations of currency.

With a smidge of technology and a pinch of librarian instinct, I think I've overcome those problems and if all goes well I might have some prototypes to test out locally in the next few weeks.

Basically the idea is to take silver coins (dimes at this point, as they are recognizable) that have no numismatic value over their intrinsic value (I repeat: NO numismatic value), authenticate them, and encapsulate them in these cards. Yes, this is sort of like what a TPG does, but instead of aiming to certify its numismatic value and make it more liquid, it aims to certify its intrinsic value and make it more liquid.

(No I will NOT be certifying anything "First Strike" or other such ridiculousness. :-) )

The cards, themselves, have lots of information on the back about them in plain to understand language. This will include a quick FAQ about their value as well as history about the denomination.

There will also be a QR code to scan on a smart phone on the front that will take you to a profile page which gives you its values. I'm going to have listed melt, recommended trade value, and "buyback" prices I would pay to have them returned. I'm going to link in the Numismetrica database to calculate these values as well as keep the buy back and suggested trade a bit more granular than the real-time spot price so one can better keep the value in their head.

It'll also have a picture of the coin to help authenticate it with simple magnification, tare of the packaging, and if anyone reports back that they find a counterfeit card with that serial number it will display an alert with information on how to authenticate it manually (which is more than the major TPGs currently do when they know serial numbers have been compromised).

Also, since it's easy once there's a database already tracking these things, I'm going to put together a "my wallet" sorta deal where you can add QR codes you've scanned to a saved list that keeps track of their respective values as a whole.

I'll tell you how this experiment pans out once I get the equipment and get some out in the wild and also share about any patent filing comes along. :-)

In the meantime: Thoughts? Comments? Fashion tips? Predictions?

(And in case you're wondering, making prototypes for crazy ideas is what I do when I can't sleep at night. :-) )
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Would be nice to declare your taxes in dimes! LOL it IS legal tender... Makes you kinda think, is the dollar super-inflated so that the IRS can tax you 20X more than they should?

Overall it's a cool idea, just don't expect the American public to accept it on the first day you try it. I hope you don't get arrested on some dumb terrorist charge.
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614 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  10:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tzarmarko to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think this is a great idea! HOWEVER, if you start circulating this, you will most likely get arrested. By law, it is illegal to circulate coins made out of precious material in the united states. :p

Edit: never mind its just me not thinking right. Cary on
Edited by tzarmarko
08/26/2012 10:26 pm
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  10:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For tipping with them I would suggest giving the server a choice. Tell them you could give them x amount of money or a silver coin worth x amount. Some will take the coin some wont. I only say that just because they are doing it for a living and like you mention the vast majority will not know how to actually get full value out of it. I'm all for spreading out and teaching people about coins, just when it comes to the old silver ones its a little more complicated than the unique face value spending ones and I wouldnt want someones income to suffer because they didnt know where to take it

The card is a cool idea though. That will definitely make it more appealing to people

Definitely cant wait to hear the reactions you get
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  10:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Would be nice to declare your taxes in dimes! LOL it IS legal tender... Makes you kinda think, is the dollar super-inflated so that the IRS can tax you 20X more than they should?


Hehe aye there is actually a local municipality here in NJ that entertained the thought of paying its employees half in Silver Eagles, half in standard USD, and declaring the face value of everything for tax purposes. :-) I'm not quite sure how far along that went.


Quote:
Overall it's a cool idea, just don't expect the American public to accept it on the first day you try it. I hope you don't get arrested on some dumb terrorist charge.


Lol, for now I'm just going to just enjoy the novelty and "oh that's so neat!" moments. The whole "if" it catches on will remain a big fat IF until I receive one back in change. :-)


Quote:
Edit: never mind its just me not thinking right. Cary on


No worries. Story of my life. :-)
Rest in Peace
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jgfindring's Avatar
United States
1380 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgfindring to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've tried this on a small scale from the other end.
I've had a sign on my cash register at my shop for the last two years stating "Silver Coins Accepted in Payment at 20 Times Face Value". In that time I've only had one customer take advantage of it, he bought $20 worth of fish food for 4 silver quarters.
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614 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tzarmarko to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also, I think you should supply some willing members with a few of these cards to begin the circulating of them.
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cc99999's Avatar
United States
1302 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cc99999 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
basing the value of a dollar in a commodity is not exactly a hedge against inflation and silver almost bankrupted the United States in the 19th century. Cool graphic and idea on the small scale... but there's a great reason we don't do it any more.
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Williamsonj320's Avatar
United States
538 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  11:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Williamsonj320 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love all of your projects! Can't wait to see how it turns out and would love to try circulating a couple of these myself if you ever try to distribute them.
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United States
3184 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  04:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkman123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
cool idea, did you make the template and all that?
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  09:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wouldn't want someones income to suffer because they didn't know where to take it.


Exactly. There'd be no sense paying exclusively in them at this point anyways.


Quote:
In that time I've only had one customer take advantage of it, he bought $20 worth of fish food for 4 silver quarters.


Well, how many people *carry* silver on them nowadays? :-) I take it they were a regular, or at least a repeat customer?


Quote:
Also, I think you should supply some willing members with a few of these cards to begin the circulating of them.


Hehe, welll... once I have a few to fiddle with I don't see any reason why not to host a contest and give a few away.


Quote:
basing the value of a dollar in a commodity is not exactly a hedge against inflation and silver almost bankrupted the United States in the 19th century. Cool graphic and idea on the small scale... but there's a great reason we don't do it any more.


Aye, small sale here is key. :-) Keeps it fun.


Quote:
I love all of your projects! Can't wait to see how it turns out and would love to try circulating a couple of these myself if you ever try to distribute them.


Any sort of distribution is way up in the air right now, but who knows? :-)


Quote:
cool idea, did you make the template and all that?


Yep. Designed and arranged from scratch. The portrait of Jefferson is one of Rembrandt's pieces (I can't claim I did that). :-)
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  10:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spending almost anything in any place is almost fun sometimes. I've tried spending $2 bills, lots of Half Dollars, Wheat Cents and my favorite is those baby sized dollars. Wheat Cents go through as if normal coinage. $2 bills almost get a person arrested. Half Dollars get all sorts of stares and statements such as what is this supposed to be. Using a Silver Dime in almost any public place would go unnoticed by almost everyone. And those baby dollars almost get people to say your kidding or I really don't want those. Even banks by me stopped trying to get people to take them.
I really can't see how spending anything Silver would even be noticed by 90% of the population.
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Williamsonj320's Avatar
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538 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  11:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Williamsonj320 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Carl, I think that's the whole point of the card he wants to put them in. It sets them apart so they don't get spent like regular change on accident and also informs people on silver coinage.
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barryg's Avatar
United States
5821 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love the idea and I think the design of the card looks terrific. I just have one question, though: What does "Authticity" mean?
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@barryg - I believe I covered that under "(And in case you're wondering, making prototypes for crazy ideas is what I do when I can't sleep at night.)" :-)

Hehe, but more seriously, squashed that typo about an hour after I posted the pic here but was too lazy to re-upload a correct version.
Edited by SteveCaruso
08/27/2012 2:21 pm
Pillar of the Community
614 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tzarmarko to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I got another idea! What part of NJ do you live in? If its on North NJ we can start to attempt circulating these in Northern NJ as regional currency. You could also add Bank of Northern New Jersey (NNJ) to the card to make it more official, until you get arrested of course.....
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