Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsRoyal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors 300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

So, What Does PCGS Actually Guarantee?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 1,914Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2012  12:19 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Poll Question
So I was recently looking over PCGS's "guarantee."

Where their coverage of authenticity seems pretty solid, the more I read the rest of what they're willing to own, the more I found myself asking, "So... ok, what IS covered? I'm not seeing much."

http://www.pcgs.com/guarantee.html

Under "What the PCGS Guarantee Does Not Cover":

'Clerical or "mechanical" errors' seems to be a catch-all and absolves them from virtually all attribution mistakes.

My favorite is:


Quote:
"A variety attribution that is obviously incorrect. For example, if you had a normal date 1942 Mercury dime, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a much rarer 1942/1 overdate, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the date is obviously normal."


With how many eyes they claim look over a single coin and double-check it, I'm not sure how such a "clerical error" could be excused as anything but gross negligence. :-)

(Also I have had reports of finer-pointed variety attributions that PCGS has flubbed, but will not make good on, such as large date vs small date 1970-S cents. I could understand *this* a "clerical error" more than anything else.)

There are also contradicting portions of the guarantee.

For example, where this is very reasonable:


Quote:
How to Use the PCGS Guarantee

If you have a coin that you feel is overgraded or counterfeit, call PCGS Customer Service and they will help you fill out the proper submission forms. For approximate turnaround times, please ask a PCGS Customer Service Representative. After PCGS examines your coin, if PCGS feels your coin has been overgraded or is counterfeit, you will be contacted by phone or email and given the current market values so you can decide which of the repayment options you wish to use. If PCGS determines that the original grade is correct, your coin will be returned to you with the original grade and you will be responsible for the regrading fee and postage charges.


They then say:


Quote:
A blatantly obvious clerical input mistake with respect to the actual grade of the coin. For example, if you had an 1893-O Morgan dollar and the PCGS holder showed the coin as MS65 (a Gem quality coin), but the coin was so beat up and marked up that it would grade MS60 at best, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as this would be an obvious input error. The rule of thumb here would be a difference of more than two points on the grading scale.


(Emphasis mine)

This in essence limits claims to over-grading by about 2 points. Anything other than that, and they claim it's a clerical error... again despite the fact that two (sometimes three) separate graders have to enter in the same number to their computer system (at least their video shows the graders doing their own data entry).

What does everyone else think?

*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***

Poll Choices
 This guarantee is completely reasonable.
 This guarantee is ok.
 This guarantee leaves something to be desired.
 This isn't a fair

Pillar of the Community
SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2012  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grr, I might have better posted this in the TPG forum. Sorry about that.
Pillar of the Community
xshift's Avatar
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2012  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No worries, we can always move it if you send a note to staff (someone else did)
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2012  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ive never had to use it before but on the surface of it the guarantee seems reasonable. Itd be nice if it covered everything but I can understand them wanting to protect themselves. I'm sure people have probably tried and been successful at abusing the system in the past.

The point difference thing is probably taken on a case by case basis. I'm sure what they dont want is for someone to buy a low end 65 or one that was cheap then decide to basically just ruin it till its a 60 or something to get a large amount of money from them.


Quote:
I'm not sure how such a "clerical error" could be excused as anything but gross negligence


For that I highly doubt the graders themselves label the coin. For large batches or bulk submissions of the same coin I could see the wrong label ending up in a slab. I'm sure its more of a data entry type job as they have way to many coins to grade for the graders to actually put the labels in themselves.
Bedrock of the Community
Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2012  2:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The point difference thing is probably taken on a case by case basis. I'm sure what they dont want is for someone to buy a low end 65 or one that was cheap then decide to basically just ruin it till its a 60 or something to get a large amount of money from them.

How would you "ruin" a low grade 65 until it is a 60 without removing it from the slab?
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2012  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By how you store it you could destroy all eye appeal and just make it look terrible. I'm sure people have figured out ways. Pretty much every policy, rule and law is a result of someone doing that action in the past. Like the ATMs saying dont deposit coins because people used to try to put coins in them
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
carmykle's Avatar
United States
2448 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2012  4:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add carmykle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You do realize that if you do not identify the attribution you are submitting for, and pay the extra fee, they will not automatically declare the attribution on the slab.
Pillar of the Community
SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2012  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, but this guarantee applies to coins they *have* attributed. This is somewhere where somebody *has* paid that fee & declared it and they make a mistake.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2012  02:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TPG's are in the business to make $$$. If you think otherwise...well....hmmmm
Pillar of the Community
matthewvincent's Avatar
United States
3486 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2012  02:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It has been said before, but bears repeating:
BUY THE COIN AND NOT THE HOLDER.
Moderator
Learn More...
vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2012  02:44 am  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS does what they want. Nuf said.
swcoin.ecrater.com
  Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 1,914Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.32 seconds to rattle this change. Forums