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Pillar of the Community
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Having gotten the snow-9 so inexpensively, I have started really examining the Flying Eagle cents and have found one as yet unclassified clash. I know it's a clash because I've found 2 specimens on ebay concurrently. But ... It doesn't stop there. I decided that it makes sense (in my mind) that if there's an 1857 flying eagle clashed with the reverse of an 1857 Seated Liberty quarter, there ought to be quarters that exhibit the flying eagle clash. I found one that I'm pretty sure came off a die clashed with a Flying Eagle cent's reverse die, but I have found a couple others that are truly strange. One that has a banner, similar to the ribbon on the reverse of a capped bust that bears the motto E Pluribus Unum and which appears under the eagle's tail feathers. ... what it would be doing there is beyond me. I'll post a picture of that one. I also found one that has a "stem" on the "Q" in Quar Dol. Hard to figure what's going on with that one, but it's not from the pole with Liberty's cap on it ... because there's no real section of it long enough to have produced this feature, The cap is right "at" her hand. I'll see if I can find that one again too and will post a picture of it. I haven't started into the half dollars yet .... but there was so much inter-denominational nonsense going on in 1857, that I may end up checking out all of the series' just for the halibut.  Pics coming when I get them relocated,saved and prepared for publishing. Chance Edited by Chancellor Sutler
09/07/2012 01:17 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
I'll wait...and not say anything about pics. If you suspect you have a discovery coin, you might send it to Rick Snow for attribution. |
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Pillar of the Community
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1374 Posts |
Chance, do you have the Snow attribution guides? There is a lot of information on these clashes, including one with a Seated quarter. I look forward to your photos and what you have to share. Cheers. |
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Pillar of the Community
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I finally got the pictures gathered up ... and will publish them tomorrow. It's 3 am ... and I'm bushed.
Chance
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Bedrock of the Community
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Quote: I decided that it makes sense (in my mind) that if there's an 1857 flying eagle clashed with the reverse of an 1857 Seated Liberty quarter, there ought to be quarters that exhibit the flying eagle clash. They do exist, and I'm fairly sure the half dollar is known as well. I don't know if the double eagle is known. |
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Sorry I took so long to get back to this. My computer has "conflicts" between firefox and explorer which makes this whole picture process far more complex than it should ever be, so while I could have done it earlier today, I just wasn't up to the fight. First picture .... I believe this to be a die clash of some sort. I'm sure I've seen another example of this one and will keep trying to find it. Moe text below the pictures, so please keep scrolling.  Digital biasing can play havoc with your eyes when you enlarge images especially, and none of this is stuff I'm buying, but stuff I've noticed. This 1857 quarter reverse looks like it has some kind of banner between the denomination and the eagle's tail feathers. I've no idea what it is, but it's curious that the end on the right side is squared off. I don't think that's a trick of digital imaging.  Then there's this MS 1857 quarter. Check out the stem on the "Q" in "QUAR".  Finally ... an 1857 seated half that is clearly clashed with something other than the obverse of the same coin. Chance  Edited by Chancellor Sutler
09/07/2012 10:37 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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Here's the same half .... but not flipped Chance  |
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Pillar of the Community
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The FEC is out of focus, so it is hard to see what is going on. Looks a lot like clashing.
On the first quarter, there seems to be a letter in the banner to me.
On the MS quarter, could it be a die gouge? Do you see additional clashing?
The half is hard to tell from the photos. But it looks like someone put the initials TE under the western wing.
Clashes are hard to photograph! Thanks for sharing, let us know if you get better pics.
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Bedrock of the Community
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10045 Posts |
Something you might try is to match up the clashes by doing an overlay with the coin in question. This can be done in photoshop with layers and transparency--if you have that program.
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Pillar of the Community
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1372 Posts |
I have spent hours staring at these coins ... and while i's been said that none of these "muled" coins exist, I have seen numerous FE Cents with inter-denomination design elements on them. There are 2 that were just listed on ebay this morning. You need to be able to look at the coins up close and personal though. Here's how you do that: click on the picture to make it appear larger in the javascript window. One it's opened in that window, right click on the image and from the drop down menu, select "properties". Copy the address of the image, which is roughly in the center of the dialogue box, and paste it into your address bar in your browser and hit "enter". Now, to see it as close as possible ... hold the control key and keep hitting the "+" button. Each click of the "+" increases the size of the image by 25%. Here's the first coin ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1857-FLYING...em3f1c38b9b1It has design elements from the obverse of a twenty dollar gold coin. On the eagle's wing you will see the letter "T" ... There's an entire Liberty headband inpressed on the coin. If that's not weird enough for you ... look at the eagle's tail feathers. There's the design element from the reverse of the 20 dollar gold coin. I've actually seen them with design elents from the 1 dollar gold, and 20 dollar gold on the same coin. Some of these are incredibly "busy" having been clashed umpteen times prior to striking coins. The second.... an 1858 SL http://www.ebay.com/itm/11095007173....m1438.l2648There are numerous things to see on this one, but look at the date ... The dot in the center of the first "8" is part of the banner on the 20 dollar gold that reads "E PLURIBUS" The letter "U" appears under the "1" in the date. Lok closely at this one and you'll see other 20 dollar gold design elements. The scroll devise again starts on the eagle's tail feathers. There's a "Liberty" headband at the top of the obverse of coin, in the field. It's faint, but it's there. At the top edge of the eagle's wing is a row of dots ... normal right? The row of large dots is part of the design. Directly above that row is a row of smaller dots .. from the base of the headband on a 1 dollar gold coin. Some are incredibly busy. I think these dies were manipulated purposely. Chance Edited by Chancellor Sutler
09/10/2012 08:23 am
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Bedrock of the Community
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Purposely yes, but officially ? Less well known is a 1868 Shield nickel clashed with a nickel Three Cent piece. And I believe there is also an obv clashed with a misaligned cent reverse. |
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Pillar of the Community
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I'm bidding on an example of these multi-denomination patchwork cents. The curious thing is ... I don't think it's really a "clash" at all. It looks as though somebody took a freshly minted cent and let it visit all the other dies after the fact. The reason I say that ... is that the devices and legends are correctly embossed on the high points of the coin ... not reversed and in the field only as you would expect a clash to be.
I'll take some pictures of it if I'm successful in the purchase. They're not rare, not by any stretch of the imagination. I wonder how much of this could have been due to the steam presses not functioning properly?
Chance
Edited by Chancellor Sutler
09/10/2012 2:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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1374 Posts |
I would be interested in seeing what you come up with. Tough for me to see exactly your PUPs. Maybe you can point it out or circle it in paint? Out of pocket as I'm traveling.
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Bedrock of the Community
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17884 Posts |
One thing that might help in your pictures is to invert the coin and reverse it. That will put the clash marks right side up and oriented correctly as the would appear on a normally struck coin from the die that clashed.
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Pillar of the Community
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1372 Posts |
Hey Conder... good to know you're watching this thread. The more I study these coins, the more befuddling it becomes. Most of what's going on with these coins isn't clashing at all, and isn't reversed. Some of it is classic clashing, but some of it is complete in detail and raised, not incuse. Take a look at this Half Cent on the PCGS site. Enlarge it in your browser to 400%. If you're using internet explorer that's easy to do. If using firefox, you'll need to hold down the "control" key and hit the "+" key to enlarge it to that point. There is a ton of "surface noise" on almost all of the coins from this time period. I am beginning to think that it was the mint's way to discourage counterfeiting, an early security measure, like an antiquated "strip in the dollar bill" sort of thing. The mint could look at a suspected counterfeit and if the counterfeiter didn't have a whole lot of dies ... they couldn't fool the government.Probably far fetched, but it's nearly impossible tofind a coin from this period that doesn't have elements of other denominations present. On the seated half that shows clashing on the obverse, the die it was clashed with was that of a Half Cent. That's why I was studying this image, to confirm that the coronet with the "rivet" in the corner was that of the braided hair Half Cent. This is really mind blowing. There is text in the curls of her hair, again it appears to be the "E Plurius Unum" from the acanthus foliate design of the reverse of the double eagle, but present at the same time are feathers from the headress of either the 1 dollar or 3 dollar gold (type 3). Here's the link to the Half Cent I mentioned. Take a little time if you can, and really study the surface noise on this coin, both obverse and reverse. Chance  Edited by Chancellor Sutler
09/12/2012 6:41 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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1372 Posts |
For those who just can't see anything going on because they haven't studied the coins as much as I have in only the past 2 weeks ... check out inside Liberty's ear ...and you'll see an "X" followed by a series of dots, asterisks, and X's. nother "X" appears in the top rail of the coronet head band. and continues intothe field. This is the headband of a 1 dollar gold coin.
The more you study these, the more you'll see.
There's a banner to the left of Liberty's throat ... that runs almost to the star.
Chance
Edited by Chancellor Sutler
09/12/2012 7:02 pm
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Replies: 26 / Views: 7,991 |
Posted 09/07/2012 01:13 am
