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 Replies: 25 / Views: 2,934 |
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Forum Dad
 United States
24173 Posts |
As most of the regulars here know, I am a firm belever that 95% of what people are *sure* is shilling activity are dead wrong. Now I'm going to show you an example. Here's the listing.Here's the bidding history.Here's the email I got from the high bidder 5 minutes after the auction.... quote:
THERE WAS A MISTAKE WITH THE BIDDING PROCESS. I BID A MAX BID OF $6.63, NOT $663.00. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. I ALSO DON'T KNOW HOW A 63 PROOF SET COULD HAVE BID UP TO $65. I WOULD LIKE TO BE EXCUSED FROM THIS TRANSACTION. THANKS
The next highest bidder that allows 2nd chance offers is at $13.00 so this will need to be relisted. You know from the tone, this guy already thinks I shilled it. You also know that anyone that looks at that and sees it relisted will tell every person they know that we shill bid it. Be careful with accusations, no matter how much of a dead lock it looks like, you have no proof, and your probably wrong.
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
Interesting in that the "buyer" has no bid retractions in the last six months. I agree however that "bidder remorse" is more likely in most cases than shill bidding. His statement makes me feel he just wanted the coins cheaper. Mike
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Pillar of the Community
United States
882 Posts |
Why do you have to relist this item? He won the auction... If he thought you where shill bidding then he would of probably stopped bidding after 4 or 5 tries... This guy was just asking for trouble and he lied to you. I wouldn't be this understanding... Why you letting him off the hook?
Ty
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1626 Posts |
So what exactly is Shill Bidding ? I have heard this term before and never really knew what it means.....
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
Shill bidding is someone "working" with the seller to drive the price up. As Bobby has cautioned, far more sellers are accused of this because of a bidding war or buyers remorse than actually occur. Mike  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1626 Posts |
Thanks for the explanation Uncle Mike  |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
If a group of let say 12 people all dealers
regularly bid on each others coins in the hope to catch the other guy's coins 10% below normal price
And if they win the auction and pay the price and receive the coin
Does that contitute shellbidding ?
Because in that case a lot of dealers have shells I think
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Forum Dad
 United States
24173 Posts |
quote:
Why you letting him off the hook?
What would you like me to do? Go to his house? Sue him? Call the police? You can't force the guy to pay. There's no magical ebay police.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
882 Posts |
So are you going to request reimbursement for the fees this bidder caused? Or just leaving him with a neg. feedback? I understand that there is nothing you can do. But if I was the bidder and bid on a item that I didn't really want to pay for, I still would feel obligated to follow throught with the transaction. Also, I would be fearful to get a negative.
Ty
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
To me its pretty obvious ,, that the bidder before placed a pretty high bid figuring that anyone with any sense would stop short,, while you have one bidder whining about winning you have another taking a deep breath of relief.
Metalman
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Forum Dad
United States
24173 Posts |
quote:
So are you going to request reimbursement for the fees this bidder caused? Or just leaving him with a neg. feedback?
In 7 days I'll file an NPB alert, in another 7 I'll file for my fees back which will put a strike against him. I certainly will not neg him since negs don't hurt buyers one iota, but if he hits me back it will hurt me. The strikes are what hurts buyers, not negs. Three strikes you're out, a million negs and you can still bid your butt off. Nice huh? To be honest, I'm much more worried about all the people that will jump to shill bidding conclusions when in reality they have no clue. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
830 Posts |
It's truly unfortunate, but sellers do get falsely accused of having shill bidders in cases like the one you used as an example. The fact of the matter is that you have one knot-head bidder who places seven different bids on the item. He looks like a shill to the uneducated viewer, but he isn't. A true shill bidder will place one or two bids, and on separate days. The true shill bidder already knows what the seller wants to get for the item, and his bids will work towards that end, usually like this (as is MY understanding of the game): Seller wants $100. Shill bids $99 or so for his first bid. Someone outbids the shill and it goes to $102.50 so the shill will sometimes bid again "just to see how high it can go", at, say, $115. If the previous bidder's high was $115 or more, he just got shafted by the seller and his shill bidder. If he bid less than $115, the shill wins it, BUT (here's the fun part!) he backs out and the seller offers the legitimate bidder a "second chance" explaining that the guy who won backed out of the deal, blah, blah, blah. In the end, if the legitimate bidder takes that offer, he got shafted. A true shill bidder would not likely make six bids in a row, because that actually gives the appearance of shilling, and he and the seller don't want to get caught doing this. So, the vast majority of situations that look like Bobby's example are just "uncertain" buyers, or, as I like to call 'em, "seller's blessings" because they just gotta have that item !!! I love 'em |
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
There is also the possibility that the guy is telling the truth and forgot to put a decimal point in his bid amount or didn't hit the key hard enough.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1283 Posts |
Wouldn't $6.63 be rediculously cheap for a 1963 proof set?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts |
The most interesting thing to me is that he won a previous auction for the same proof set on the 11th of March. Not in the hard holder, but still the same set correct? Maybe he forgot he even placed the bid...Just doesn't make sense to me I guess.
Also, wouldn't he have noticed that at 2 pm already it eclipsed his supposed $6.63 max bid and he was still the high bidder? Sorry, I'm finding this harder and harder to be understanding......
Edited by tights24
03/18/2007 2:30 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
655 Posts |
quote:
If a group of let say 12 people all dealers
regularly bid on each others coins in the hope to catch the other guy's coins 10% below normal price
And if they win the auction and pay the price and receive the coin
Does that contitute shellbidding ?
No that's not shill bidding, but it's annoying when trying to catch a bargain. In Oz there are a couple of regulars I know of that place a bid on EVERY gold or silver coin that is listed for sale. The bid amount is usually close to or below melt value. Makes it impossible to catch a rare metal coin cheap. They have to be dealers going by their win history where they spend literally tens of thousands every month. Either that or they are Bill Gates. I suppose this is good for sellers, keeps the auctions at an honest price I suppose. What I need to know is when they go on holiday so I can grab some of the bargains they would have won.  |
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Replies: 25 / Views: 2,934 |
Posted 03/15/2007 11:55 pm
