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Hello, Newbie And Wanting To Stack Gold, Silver, Both? Helpp

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New Member

United States
12 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  10:43 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ZELDA to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

Hello,
I wanted to say hi, I am new to this forums and apologize in advance for breaking any etiquette rules you may have.

I am here because this forum out of many on the internet seemed the most civil on the subject of buying bullion. Here is hoping that I find a new community to be part of!

My question today is.
I own 2 1 oz silver bars, a half ounce bar, I purchased these from Ampex and provident (sorry If I spelled the names wrong). I did this to test companies before placing a larger order which I plan to do in the coming weeks.

I own a few silver dollars from my great grandparents, they used to shove em between floorboards back in the day and when the house was sold the grandchildren split them up. These are kept for sentimental reasons, I even carry one attached to a money clip as jewelry.

But -
For my questions, I have $13,000-$14,000 being freed up in the next 2-3 weeks from some of my cd's finally maturing. I am looking to purchase PM's in Gold and silver.

First purchase I was thinking to buy 100 Face value in Dimes, now I dont know if I should get Barber or mercury. (or shroud I just stick with bars and maple leafs, American eagles etc.. if so which one!!?

Second purchase I was thinking initially a 100oz silver bar - but the more I think about it the more 100 1 oz bars would be easy to move - what's your opinion?

Finally I want 4 oz of gold bars (or coins) not suer what ones to get, or what ones keep value the best. (I'm thinking PAMP) any opinions?


Should I stay away from palladium and platinum or is it worth picking up an OZ of each?

I dont really understand gold and silver pricing, what spot is how to calculate it etc.. I'm trying to learn.!

This is a pretty big purchase for me, I know of no coin shops by my house and do prefer online due to the anonymity.

Besides my questions above.. what would you buy if you had 13-14k to invest in PM's?
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barryg's Avatar
United States
5853 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


I'm sure you will get a wide, wide range of answers to your questions and there really aren't any correct or best answers since nobody knows for sure what the future holds.

As for me, had you asked this a few weeks ago when silver was still around $27/ounce, I would have recommended a "monster box" (500 ounces) of American Silver Eagles. The monster boxes come sealed by the mint so there's worries about them being counterfeited, they are easily recognizable and trusted (and therefore easy to resell down the road) and also happen to be extremely beautiful. Right now, however, a monster box will run you over $18K, which I'm assuming is out of your price range.

Right now, I would probably go with a $500 face value bag of "junk" silver like this bag of Walking Liberty half dollars available from Goldmart. The premium is much less than Silver Eagles ($0.70 per ounce over spot compared to $2.49-2.99 over spot) and they are also well recognized (and beautiful). And they are also easy to liquidate because you can sell off small amounts at a time, as opposed to, say trying to sell a 100-ounce bar of silver.

I have purchased a small amount of gold and platinum, but prefer silver when buying large quantities. Partially because I happen to believe (right or wrong) that silver has more potential for a percentage increase in value, and partially because I like to actually have a large quantity of stuff to look at when I spend a lot of money instead of just a small handful of coins.
New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  11:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ZELDA to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Barryg, I was thinking all silver to, but want to diversify a little. I could aford the monster box, but that litterally is puting all my eggs in one basket at that point. I'm really trying to stick around 14k in total investing at this point. I plan to add to the silver stack monthly and gold once a year.

Since this is a long term investemnt, would non junk hold a higher premium then junk down the line?
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barryg's Avatar
United States
5853 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The point about "junk" silver is that it has a low premium when you buy and, as a result, has a low premium when you sell. As for "non-junk" silver, it really depends on what type it is and who you are trying to sell it to. Higher grade ("numismatic") coins like Morgan dollars in AU or BU shape will cost a lot more but there's no guarantee you will be able to get all or even most of that premium back when you go to sell.

I have some BU Morgan dollars in my stack, but that's just because I really love the way they look and couldn't bear staring and ones that are all worn out. I don't expect to ever get the premium I paid on those back, but if silver goes up to $100/ounce it won't really matter.

If you're talking about long-term investment in PMs, you really should just consider the value of the silver since that is a known quantity at any given time. Premiums for collectible coins, on the other hand, can fluctuate wildly. That's why if you are just looking to stack silver, your best bet is to get the most trusted silver at the lowest premium.

Having said that, of course, collectible coins with a higher premium could end up being a hedge in the event that silver values ever plummet. A BU (Brilliant Uncirculated) Morgan dollar that costs $60 today would likely still be worth $20 or so if silver ever went back down to $5/ounce. As I said, though, who can predict the future?
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5830 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  12:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Uh oh Barry,

You have just got Zelda into being a stacker.

Oh Zelda into this great forum! You will have many that will help you answer your questions, and opinions for your consideration.

I agree for starter it to buy 90% junk silver, but if you can buy them at least in AU qualities, you be way ahead of the game.
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coinwatch's Avatar
United States
808 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinwatch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ZELDA!

And congratulations on the upcoming buying opportunity! Over all, your plan to buy some 90% silver and/or silver bullion and a little gold is pretty sound. Keep in mind, though, that bullion coins like American Silver Eagles and Canadian Silver Maples will eventually sell for a better price than an equivalent silver weight in US 90% junk silver.

I personally have about half of my sliver in better quality US 90% silver, with the balance of my stack in ASE's, CSM's, other world silver bullion coins, and a few private mint rounds and bars. My goal here was to balance my high quality silver bullion purchases with descent quality 90% junk silver that was purchased at or just below the silver spot price.

As for gold, the PAMP gold bars you mentioned (sealed with their original assay cards) are well respected. I personally went with government minted bullion coins since that is my preference. Random year Krugerrands from both Provident Metals and Goldmart are VERY competitively priced and are readily recognized world wide. American Gold Eagles are, however, very popular and while they command a much higher premium when purchased, they should also sell for a premium above spot price when they are eventually sold.

Purchasing online is not generally a problem, especially when buying from one of the well known and reliable online dealers: APMEX, Provident Metals, Goldmart, Silvertowne, etc. Just don't forget to consider shipping, insurance, and any banking fees for wire transfers, cashier's checks, and any other costs of acquisition when deciding between PM dealers.

The only other comment I might make is regarding large purchases. I have typically avoided making large PM purchases because of market volatility. If you're looking at buying PMs for wealth preservation and have a long time horizon, this may be less important to you. For me, however, being able to make several smaller purchases over the past several months has allowed me to greatly improve my dollar cost average. Good luck!
Edited by coinwatch
09/20/2012 12:45 pm
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  12:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply



Quote:
For my questions, I have $13,000-$14,000 being freed up in the next 2-3 weeks from some of my cd's finally maturing. I am looking to purchase PM's in Gold and silver.


If silvers still bouncing around like it is right now Id probably wait. If its settled back down around 30 its a better time to buy.

Im not sure how much investing money you have total, but I would also say if this is the vast majority of it dont make a huge purchase like that. Having some of the investment in PMs is a good idea but not all of it or even the majority of it. You can build slowly and be surprised what youll have over time just picking up a coin or two a week


Quote:
First purchase I was thinking to buy 100 Face value in Dimes, now I dont know if I should get Barber or mercury.


I would pass on this. Put the money into something better like ASEs or use that for a platinum round. Junk silver like that is one of those things you get when you find a great deal but dont really seek out. Especially dimes the silver is so low no one really goes after them


Quote:
Second purchase I was thinking initially a 100oz silver bar - but the more I think about it the more 100 1 oz bars would be easy to move - what's your opinion?


Id go with 100oz of ASEs, much easier to sell than generic bars and might even start to carry their own premium in time.


Quote:
Finally I want 4 oz of gold bars (or coins) not suer what ones to get, or what ones keep value the best. (I'm thinking PAMP) any opinions?


Stick with coins like the 1 oz GOLD Eagles. Lot hard to try and hollow those out then bars.

Im not a big fan of generic silver or gold. The mint bullion you know exactly what your getting and so does everyone else making it very easy to move if you choose
Edited by basebal21
09/20/2012 1:00 pm
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5830 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd also like to add that with all the above Suggestion is put no more than 15-20% of your net holdings into PM, although some analyst that are more bullish on PM would prefer 25-35% net holding.
New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  1:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ZELDA to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you,
This is not all my savings, this is just some money that is not worth keeping in a long term CD that finally matured. What can I do if SHTF and my money is tied up in a bank.. So I am making the move for some of it to PM's.

Basically knowing my spending habbits if I have the money sitting in a savings or checking acount it will dwindle down on stupid purchases fast.

I was thinking of not buying all the silver and gold at once, to do a few moderate sized transactions and to watch the market... at the same time, to buy say 100 bars/coins of somethign at once, you do get a good discount.


What is a ASE? (sorry new to this).
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barryg's Avatar
United States
5853 Posts
Valued Member
United States
200 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lincsus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would go for the cheapest silver available. I have got .999 silver coins of smaller countries at or less than spot. Also junk silver is generally available for less than spot. I also buy some coins only because I like them with no intent of ever selling them back.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  4:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I seriously suggest you hold off until you have read books and articles for 3 or 4 months. You should acquire as much knowledge as you can before investing.
New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ZELDA to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1893S
Your opinion is duley noted, any sugestions on books? I have been researching the presiose metals market as a whole, grabbing up what I can.

I dont think I'm so much into collecting rare coins, but more for the long term silver/gold value. But that could easily change, when I start a new hobby I go in all the way and let it consume me.
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mkfarm's Avatar
United States
667 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You have to decide if you want to be a speculator or a collector. Putting a large sum of money into PM's is not an investment but is speculation.

With that said I think it is a good thing to speculate on.

I would suggest a good bullion coin such as the ASE or Maple in either gold or silver.

You may want to spread your buys over six months instead of getting it all at once. Just don't blame me if the price goes up each day for the next 6 months. History does show peaks and valleys though.

Please note cash purchases at larger volumes does get you lower premiums.

You don't need a book to get into speculating though you certainly can use a library of books if you want to be a collector. Of course you need to take some time to read and understand what speculating is all about too.

Point to remember usually premiums will hold for each type of MP you buy. For example junk silver may be cheaper but then again it will sell cheaper when you sell it. ASE's premiums may be higher but will keep its higher premium over junk.
Valued Member
lukemarshall's Avatar
United States
103 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lukemarshall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Zelda and welcome,

Since you're looking to enter the PM scene you have an opportunity to to do things that some people did not think to do till they were already in.

Namely,

1. Thinking about you're exit strategy, recognizable bullion goes faster than generic bullion, but usually has a bit higher premium.

2. Spreadsheet... Record what you spend including any postage/delivery costs.

3.Cost averaging, don't just blow your load all at once, silver &gold are I'm a constant state of up & down... Pick a couple designated spots to jump in.

4. What ratio do you want silver to gold in your personal holdings, and either oz or dollar amount...

5 Here's the though one, don't get attached to any bullion, it's all for sale sooner or later (except your grandparents dollars)

Do some research and Try to make the best decisions for yourself.

IMO for gold I would go with 1/4 fractional AGEs, and CMLs
Silver : 90% Halves, quarters, dimes, and dollars... ASEs, maples, libertads, and Johnson Matthey/engelhard 1 & 10oz bars

Oh and don't get barbers, I find them to be slick more than not.

Good luck
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mkfarm's Avatar
United States
667 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2012  6:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
5 Here's the though one, don't get attached to any bullion, it's all for sale sooner or later (except your grandparents dollars)


You know I use to say this so much I am surprised I didn't say it above. Once you start falling in love with it your in trouble.
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