1878 7TF: Second Try At VAMming - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 5 / Views: 1,993
sjh241 Valued Member United States 386 Posts	Posted 10/08/2012 11:52 pm After finding the right VAM attribution for my 1878S Morgan, with a great deal of help from the experienced Vammer's, I thought I would return to my 1878 7TF Morgan. I passed over this Morgan and went to the 78S (the 78 7TF was confusing the heck out of me) but with being 1% more knowledgeable with VAM's here is my logic for my conclusion. I would really appreciate some feedback if my research methodology seems sound or if I'm messing with it up. I'd appreciate any advice on how to better attribute VAM's. Basic identification: 1878 7TF Short nock, parallel arrow feathers Next step identification: After concluding the above I looked at the obverse for any tell-tale signs for an obverse die hub. I found the 4th broken star on the right. This leads me to the Obverse II hub id. I then looked for the reverse hub pairings that matched up with the Obverse II. I then ran through each one and noted if I had any attributes/markers. Next step/examination: Reverse B2A (VAM's 130-133): -First I would like to say I was a bit confused with the wording on Vamworld for this grouping, and which had the broken star and which didn't. 130: No broken star. ELIMINATED. 130A: No die gouge in I Liberty. ELIMINATED. 130B: No spike in eyelid. ELIMINATED. 130C1: I have the weak nostril, but my Morgan has the broken star. ELIMINATED. 130C2: No die clash. ELIMINATED. 132: No string in cap. ELIMINATED. 133: I have a normal P (Pluribus). ELIMINATED. B2B: 146: My Morgan's o (God) is not open. ELIMINATED. B2C: 185A-189: My Morgan's r (Trust) is not broken. ELIMINATED. B2D: 190: My Morgan's nostril is not fully missing. ELIMINATED. 190A: Same as 190. ELIMINATED. B2E: 195: No broken D in Dollar (but it is not fully struck either), no lines through B in Liberty. ELIMINATED. 195A: As above. ELIMINATED. 197: (this one was very close). I have all of the markers except two. The polished wing in My Morgan is polished but still visible (not absent). I also miss a die crack and/or polish line on the reverse (vertical) between the E and D in One Dollar. ELIMINATED. B2H: 134: Doubling obverse U-R BUS UNU (clear double on S as per Vamworld image), polish line through top of right wheat leaf and raised dot (well, mine looks like a blob) dot on top right serif on E. Slight doubling on reverse. Die-polish lines per Vamworld pics for this particular VAM almost exactly match mine. Die cracks above UNITED STATES AMERICA. CHOSEN. I will get some pics up tomorrow, but I will not be able to catch in a photo the line through the top of right wheat leaf. Is the conclusion logical or did I completely nerf it? Edited by sjh241 10/09/2012 12:00 am Report this Post to the Staff

SsuperDdave Moderator United States 23522 Posts	Posted 10/09/2012 12:20 am Your conclusion may not be 100% correct - we'll await pics to judge - but your technique is textbook. This is how you attribute a VAM. I don't have VAMworld open, and did not check behind a word of what you've just posted. Didn't really need to. Your only error, if any, is in the interpretation of specific landmarks you already know how to look for. Yeah, this is how you do it. Report this Post to the Staff
aladinslamp Pillar of the Community United States 3076 Posts	Posted 10/09/2012 02:50 am Excellent and methodical,, As SSD notes this is how Vamming is done... Take special note here, Vams are listed as found...not all known and then catagorized in a perfect order...This is why some earlier VAM numbers have a broken R ,say some where around #130 or so, and then again some are in the #190's.. Its simply due to when they were discovered, it just takes time to remember the "Pick Up Points' Broken B,D,R, clashing, open or closed O ect,,in which you can narrow your choices... These are the main points of issue whereas those polishing lines die cracks and smaller details are secondary confirming points of interest...the main points lead to the main VAM # such as vam1 however the secondary points and progressive die states lead to the same known VAM die pairing with additional attributions lead to VAM 1A,B,C ect...This is the basic concept..and why all Broken Stars or Broken R's are not listed all in a row..one needs to search the listed numbering system which say what pick up point the VAM is known for...and with pictures you can find the secondary points to help confirm the final VAM designation.....This is why SSD says the method of your search is correct...Good pictures to affirm the main and secondary points are necessary for any one to confirm your findings... I think you have a solid approach... Report this Post to the Staff
SeatedNut Pillar of the Community United States 2797 Posts	Posted 10/09/2012 4:42 pm That's a logical and productive approach. Here's what my eyes would have seen in the order that I scan the coin ... Reverse first: # of tailfeathers, long or short nock, parallel or slanted arrow feathers, broken/unbroken 'r' in Trust, open/closed 'o' in God, broken/unbroken base of 'D' in Dollar, then Obverse: Intact or broken 4th right star (viewer's right). With that 5 second drill I can place a 7TF B2 reverse in one of four groups: Vams 100-133; 140-146, 160-189, 134 plus 185-198. The keys to this grouping process are the items on the reverse and obverse listed. Through repeated use you also learn secondary pick-up points that will enable you attribute 90% of the 1878-P's within 20~30 seconds per coin without referring to VAMWorld or books. Here's a visual depiction of how my eyes scan the coin ... Reverse first The arrow signifies the additional pickup point for this 7/8TF coin Obverse By the time I flip to the obverse I usually have the coin within a small group of candidates. In this case, the strong 7/8TF with that huge gap between the leg and wing tells me what this one is before flipping to the obverse. Report this Post to the Staff
sjh241 Valued Member United States 386 Posts	Posted 10/09/2012 9:08 pm That is an excellent summary on how I can better focus my attribution methods for Vamming. Thank you very much for that. I have been doing this for only a few days. I thought I would "train" myself in the basics by trying to attribute the few Morgans that I already have (been collecting them for only a few weeks) and once I got the feel for this, focus on one date (i.e: 1878), or the top 50, top 100 etc... I have a local dealer whom I am buying some Morgans from every week. The Morgans are in AU shape and better. Boxes/tubes of Morgans to search through organized by date. He doesn't know Vamming and really doesn't care if there are some top VAM's in there. He said if you know what to look for, it's yours at the normal price. I therefore would like to get in there with some knowledge, and preferably without a source like a book or a website. Your post will help me quickly search the 1878's he has, since there are about a dozen or more that I wanted to go back and take a look at. Here are the pics of my 1878 7TF Morgan. My pics, as usual, are not so good: Hopefully with a lot more training I'll be able to scan Morgans in the way that you do. Thanks again. Now, on to the next one. Report this Post to the Staff
ArrowsAndRays Pillar of the Community United States 1662 Posts	Posted 10/09/2012 9:49 pm This is why I like CCF - I learn something every day! Report this Post to the Staff
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