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 Replies: 42 / Views: 5,115 |
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Rest in Peace
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5375 Posts |
And no, not cigars : ) So get this, they graded my VF-30 Charlotte half eagle as an XF-45 problem free when it had pretty dulled out surfaces. Then they over grade a bunch of my stuff and undergrade a few, but generally acceptable. Second time, a friend and I submit some pricey washingtons, and are surprised to get some MS-67's! One I believe is actually a top pop. We sent some in for CAC and I believe two or three out of five got the sticker. But its not the ones we thought would get 67 that actually did (the more expensive ones). Grades generally are fair in this submission, off by maybe one point in some instances, but not egregious. You know, I can understand a one grade difference. Third time, we do a big submission (keep in mind these are all fairly recent) and they just mess everything up. We had a Half Cent being slabbed that we both agreed on as AU-55 or so. This coin had a weak strike. NGC called it 58 while calling my 1871 2c piece with virtually flawless surfaces (initially so good that I judged as a potential 67, but lowered to 66) an MS-63. There is NOTHING on that coin that would limit it to anything less than 65. Along with that, they just randomly called a bunch of my lincolns and high end mercs ($500+ stuff) whizzed cleaned, etc. I know very well how to recognize even subtle cleaning and ESPECIALLY whizzing but apparently they're willing to put dipped junk in MS holders, but just arbitrarily will throw out these random grades and call something a problem coin. We got pretty much universally screwed on this batch as opposed to the last two which were overall about average. It was about 40 coins and the high end grades are still coming in, so crossing my fingers, but still just wondering what the heck would cause them to do this? We submitted before and though I disagreed with a few, none of them were anything like grading an MS-66 coin as only a 62 or calling something 'altered surfaces' because it has some carbon streaking. Many of these WERE shown on the CCF grading forum as well. I don't know, we've gotten fair grades from them plenty, and we've gotten generous grades/net grades from them on coins that were pretty obviously cleaned or dipped. Is it just which batch of graders you get, or something? I'm just very irritated because this kind of came out of the blue, and this was also quite expensive because of the number of coins. I've seen some randomness from them, but never to this extent. I'd call myself a moderate/slightly conservative grader and this just makes me very confused, because I've never had such a massive problem with them before. Shocked. Have no idea whatsoever what to think these guys are doing considering all the subs have been in the last year. They're not even following "traditional grading standards" which I thought were harsher than what is typically used today. Anyone have a crazy experience with them lately? You would think they would be very reluctant to hand out a top pop grade on a more modern coin. I'm thinking of submitting in small batches instead over time to cut losses from fees even if the shipping would be a bit more : ( Edited by coinguybrian
10/25/2012 5:21 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
Are you sure its not you? Send them in to cac.....If the ms63 comes back green bean, then your ms67 grade is wrong. If it gets the gold bean then you might be close.
Showing a coin here with pics cannot replace the human eye with a 10x loupe.
Send to cac!!
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Rest in Peace
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5375 Posts |
No, if the grade is too different it's not worth it. You're talking a coin that is $950 in 65, $1400 in 66 but only $300-400 in 63, therefore making CAC useless. Pretty sure its not me because I have not had problems with them before and have had coins from them CAC'd. I did the Charlotte gold sub awhile ago (that was the only one more than a year ago) and honestly the dealer I subbed through was shocked that it got the grade. So was I.
Edited by coinguybrian
10/25/2012 5:30 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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3184 Posts |
Send the charlotte half eagle in to cac as well. Remember people grading coins arent perfect but they try their best but they are good at what they do and maybe you missed something.
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Pillar of the Community
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3184 Posts |
I would cac a $200 coin as it can make the coin easier to sell at times. Plus if it didn't sticker you don't get charged.
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Rest in Peace
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5375 Posts |
I sold that one a long time ago. I had to sell it at a VF-35 price because I honestly just did not agree with the XF-45 grade and neither did the person I was selling it to. Pretty sure I didn't mess up on 25 coins considering my grades, CCF's grades, and NGC's grades in the past submissions were mostly fairly close. I can understand one point, but not 3-4.
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Pillar of the Community
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3184 Posts |
To the op, I sent a raw 1901s eagle that I thought was au55-58 at most and pcgs gave me a ms63!! I compared the coin to other 58s and it looked to be that but I was wrong. Even dealers in the business who think they can grade have gotten things wrong.
Just a few months ago, pcgs had a grading contest and a bunch of collectors who I would say know their grading gave it a shot. None even came close to 50% on correctly grading the coin what pcgs gave.
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
Quote:
I would cac a $200 coin as it can make the coin easier to sell at times. Plus if it didn't sticker you don't get charged. That's the nice thing about CAC, true, but I'm not going to waste my time selling a $1200 coin in a $300 slab. You ever heard the horror stories about some guy cracking an NGC MS-63 coin for a 64, then getting a 61 back and losing $1800 on it or something? We didn't really crack many, maybe one or two, but one of the ones we did (from PCGS a long time ago) came back two grades lower. Something we cracked from NGC awhile ago and submitted in the past jumped from AU-58 to MS-61, doubling the price ( Trade dollar). It just makes me think something really, really weird is going on here. Especially because some of the grades were OVER-grades. I posted an 1810 cent here awhile ago. It was pretty much universally agreed to be a VG-10 to F-12 problem free, at least to the standards of classic head cents. I checked heritage and thought mayyybe F-15 by TPG grading, but honestly just a Fine at best. That coin got graded VF details corroded. Its not really corroded at all, but the VF details grade is really suspect because the coin isn't VF details, its F-12. Then my XF45 details 1845-O dime got graded VF details... |
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Pillar of the Community
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3184 Posts |
Can you post a pic of the 1871? I want to look at it.
As for cleaned, whizzed, etc....honestly those are hard for me to tell as some aren't obvious. Heck tooled and puttied coins have been slabbed by both companies.
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
Quote:
To the op, I sent a raw 1901s eagle that I thought was au55-58 at most and pcgs gave me a ms63!! I compared the coin to other 58s and it looked to be that but I was wrong. Even dealers in the business who think they can grade have gotten things wrong.
Just a few months ago, pcgs had a grading contest and a bunch of collectors who I would say know their grading gave it a shot. None even came close to 50% on correctly grading the coin what pcgs gave.
And I have been wrong too, but I'm pretty careful and I'm not going to mistake a whizzed AU for an MS-65. Its just simply really, really obvious. We got MANY 'wrong' grades from them, that's the problem. Not one, two, or even 20%. And in the past we did not. Just makes me think we got a bunch of curmudgeons or something. Also, I subbed through my friend so I'll have to ask if you can access the pictures online through NGC (I know you can through PCGS). The coins are not back yet, we just got the grades online today/yesterday. Edited by coinguybrian
10/25/2012 5:39 pm
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1028 Posts |
It's still not a popular opinion, but NGC has slipped down to 4th place for me, behind PCGS, ANACS, and ICG. They may still sell for more than ICG and ANACS, but I predict they are going to decline. They are just having to deal with way to many submissions....I think they're rushing them all out. I've seen nothing, but garbage from them for most coins recently. I think I've seen more recently I disagreed with than ones I agreed with. I still trust them completely as far as authentication, of coarse, but I am personally no longer willing to pay any premium for NGC coins over raw.....it's my own little protest. Their grades are just plain wrong. Their problem slabs random. I've generally seen much more overgraded stuff than undergraded, however. Buffalo nickels with no horn in the fine range, slightly cleaned Mercs with diagonal bands totally flat in problem free AU, modern MS coins in 66, 67, with clear marking. I wouldn't go anywhere near any expensive NGC coin unless the pictures were enormous and in an acceptable light. I need to see for myself. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
Hey tell him to search up the numbers and save the pics to Photobucket and post it here.
A ms63 with a gold cac sticker would increase the coin to very high value and is worth it. Their some gold bean fever haha .
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
Hesgut, buy the coin not the holder. I hold pcgs and ngc as top. Anacs is next and I don't bother with icg though if you can grade well, you could probably crossover, resub, etc.
I've seen garbage out of both companies and tons from icg. To say treat as raw is ridiculous.
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
Quote:
Hey tell him to search up the numbers and save the pics to Photobucket and post it here.
A ms63 with a gold cac sticker would increase the coin to very high value and is worth it. Their some gold bean fever haha . Not with a grade that is 4 steps too low. We'll probably have to wait awhile to get them back but the slabs are worthless; the coins are going to be cracked. I may send these to PCGS instead but this is tricky. I basically agree with what hesgut said. A lot of TPG grading of really modern coins is way off. I remember seeing ANACS grading the new 2009 lincoln cents as MS-67 with clear marking limiting to 64-65 for nothing more than a promotion. I'm going to assume this is worse. If you're looking at modern coins, there probably is more overgrading than undergrading. Though, fortunately, those washingtons were good enough to get a green CAC in some cases. I believe we got two MS-67 CAC and one MS-66+ CAC (where the price jumps something like 10x to 67). Edited by coinguybrian
10/25/2012 5:52 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
Well if you think its a tier 4 then submit.to the other three.
I will say that there is a reason cac won't look at anacs or icg.
I still wonder if you may have overgraded the coins yourself or overlooked some issues.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
I'm glad you got cac on the 66 and 67s.
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Replies: 42 / Views: 5,115 |
Posted 10/25/2012 5:28 pm
