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 Replies: 12 / Views: 2,002 |
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Valued Member
United States
402 Posts |
OK, the grandson has started his (mine)Jefferson collection. Got a good Dansco with a lot of coins in it. I am getting confused about the full steps. On PCGS online Photograde we don't see them until an MS65. Then there is five steps, six steps, partial steps, etc. for sale on ebay. I need someone to tell us about these steps? Seems like the new norm for Jefferson's. I found out on ebay if they tell you its full steps but they wont post an image of the reverse stay away from them. Need more of your help. Remember you probably will be addressing a 14 year old (not me). Thanks in advance edgman      |
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Moderator
 United States
187582 Posts |
I believe that the full step designation is independent of grade.
If there is a minimum grade, I do not know what it is, but one of our Jefferson experts may.
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Valued Member
United States
109 Posts |
This may help.... The FS (Full Step) Designation for Jefferson nickels Defined (PHOTOGRAPHICALLY) What constitutes a Full Step Jefferson nickel? This seems to be a very common question amongst collectors. And most who ask want photographs of the difference between FS and non FS step Jefferson nickels. Hopefully this thread will answer all of your questions relating to the FS designation and I will provide examples for 6FS, 5FS, and non FS with clear photographs. All of the photographs in this thread were taken by myself and are of coins presently in my collection. We should first start with a definition of the FS designation. I will refer to the PCGS OFFICIAL GUIDE TO COIN GRADING AND Counterfeit Detection which defines it as: Full Steps (FS) is the designation following the numerical grade of some regular-strike MS60 or higher Jefferson nickels that have at least five separated steps (lines) at the base of Moniticello. Any major disturbance or interruption of these steps or lines, whether caused by contact, planchet problems, or another source, will result in the coin's not being designated FS. Only the slightest weakness on any step (line) is allowed for this designation. Some issues are almost never seen with Full Steps and may command a significant premium. PCGS does not go on to explain the difference between 6FS and 5FS, but essentially it relates to the number of fully separated lines seen on the coin. The 6FS designation will have 5 distinct lines and the 5FS designation will have 4 distinct lines. Any coin without at least 4 fully separated lines will not be awared the FS designation. It should also be noted that originally NGC did not award the FS designation to 5FS Jefferson's until February 16th, 2004. Before that date, NGC only used the FS designation for coins that showed 6FS. After that date they used two different designations, one for 6FS and 5FS. A coin in an older NGC holder with the FS designation equals 6FS. To my knowledge, PCGS always considered 5 or 6 full steps FS. And this LINK... http://varietynickels.com/pages/jef...ll-steps.php |
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
The full step designation is one that technically only refers to the quality of strike of the steps leading up to Monticello on the reverse. All Jeffersons are supposed to have 6 full steps if they are fully struck. You will see all 6 on any Jefferson currently being minted. Most older Jeffersons don't even come close to having 6 full steps and on some dates, it's downright unheard of. Collectors basically invented the 5FS (5 full steps designation) to indicate a coin that is still well struck, but doesn't have 6 steps...as some dates don't at all. The 5th step is always the bottom two steps put together. Even if they are slightly separated, but not completely, it's a 5FS nickel. For a TPG to actually assign either designation, there has to be clear separation between all steps in question, with (at most) very little disturbance caused by hits or wear. This requirement essentially disqualifies most lower graded MS coins, and all circulated pieces from really being FS. I sell BU Jefferson nickels all the time and they are one of my specialties. Let me tell you of my ebay experience and what you should do. Firstly, many Jefferson sellers don't even know or care about the step detail to mention them. The ones that do, are generally accurate in counting them for you, but are usually quite lax in the bag/roll hits department. So you would, in all likelihood, receive a coin that is very well struck, but might not get a designation because of what some could consider a technicality. There is no real difference in price of 0 step nickels versus ones that are "almost 5FS". You may chose to pay slightly more because the later looks a bit better, but that's all. All modern nickels are wroth basically the same, but when dealing with older Jeffersons, 5FS nickels are only worth slightly more than ones that aren't. Some dates known for better strikes are worth barely more and others are worth at most 50% more in the actual market...forgot the price guides. Older 6FS nickels are a bit more difficult. There are some dates that are, indeed worth quite a bit, and others just slightly more. 6FS nickels are really a connoisseur's collectable and you probably don't need to worry about those at this point. I could go on and on about this talking about individual dates and such, but I only have so much room. I hope this helps. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2764 Posts |
Very nice respond and an informative post, hesgut.
May I suggest you write a little article about it and may be CCF have a section where members can contribute their specialties by writing articles/insight that would help fellow member.... kind of like a small library for the CCF community..... since many of the same/similar question come up often, we can refer them or direct new collectors to the "Library" for a reading... even long time collectors can check back to get some refresher. Just my 5cents.
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Valued Member
 United States
402 Posts |
Thank you again guys. Very informative. I see a lot of coins (Jeffs) that the steps are worn down in the middle but quite clearly defined on the side. Now I know why some coins of the same date are priced higher than others.
edgman
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
hesgut pretty much covered it. I will add that real true FS coins go for quite a bit more than similar lesser strike coins. Considering a FS coin is by default going to be 64 or better, that alone takes the value up. Add the FS and you have a 60 dollar plus coin. I have paid that and then some for a few of mine. NOT something I would pay for raw without being able to see it in hand.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
Quote:
Considering a FS coin is by default going to be 64 or better I have seen an AU-58 coin graded by NGC that had clearly 5FS on it (even though it wasn't on the label). The strike was very strong and would rival many MS coins, it just had a little rub on the Obverse that kept the coin out of a true MS holder. I have seen a few AU coins that looked allot better in details and less hits than some MS coins so I don't think it is true that it would have to be MS-64 or above to have Full Steps. The PCGS definition of the FS states it can be MS-60 or above so I am guessing that is where they stop giving the designation at even if it may have FS's and lightly circulated |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2270 Posts |
For some dates Full Steps only appear on worn die strikes or are much easier with worn dies. This is because the steps are recessed in he die and don't strike the coins at all until the dies wear. The '54-S comes to mind. Sometimes there is a weak correlation between high grade and FS but usually the strongest correlation (especially with post-67 issues) is between being well struck with good dies and FS.
Nickels are almost a species unto themselves. There is a huge tendency for these to be nice on one side and awful on the other, to be well made but badly preserved, or to have at least one serious problem on every coin minted. In some ways truly choice Gem nickels are even tougher than Gem Ikes and the only difference is that a Gem nickel tends to be "gemmer" than a Gem Ike. In all these years I doubt I've found more than a couple dozens really outstanding nickels and a lot of these are not FS.
Collecting FS is a specialty that is just a little different than seeking high grades. It's a laudable goal but it's not the same as collecting Gems or Choice examples. A FS collection will look different than a Gem collection.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
5FS is NOT FS. FS is all six, and I have yet to see an AU with a true FS designation. But could one here or there be like what you said? Sure. But that is the exception to the rule. So more times than not, a true FS nickel IS going to be higher MS.
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
cladking, I agree with most of what you've said. 54-S is probably the worst struck year I've ever seen, but it's generally poor on the obverse and reverse. A real FS collection generally will also be GEM, only because the types of collectors who seek out those coins are also looking for high grade. Technically speaking though, you are right in that there are many GEM examples out there without FS and some lower quality BUs with FS.
smoker, I also have never seen an AU coin ever certified with the FS designation. Personally, in my own FS collection, I strive for all 6FS, except where it is pretty much impossible to achieve that. You are not correct in that TPGs will slab 5FS, and many collectors also do consider them full step nickels, in their opinion.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
979 Posts |
I wish I found Jefferson's that even had steps XD
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2270 Posts |
Quote:
A real FS collection generally will also be GEM, only because the types of collectors who seek out those coins are also looking for high grade. Technically speaking though, you are right in that there are many GEM examples out there without FS and some lower quality BUs with FS. I really appreciate the FS collections and marvel at Gems especially when they are FS. FS's are desirable in and of themselves. Indeed, I even search for and save three and four step nickels for the tough dates. Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Replies: 12 / Views: 2,002 |
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Posted 11/09/2012 6:14 pm
