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 Replies: 25 / Views: 3,309 |
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Valued Member
United States
153 Posts |
Hey, so I was able to complete the 7070 album (without most of the gold) within about a month. I invested a tremendous amount of time and also a lot of money (for a person not a millionaire many times over) to get this completed within a short period. For those who did not read the previous posts, I did emphasize quality to a large extent; most of the coins are XF+, AU, BU with a few in VF. Yes, it can be done. lol Thanks for all your feedback on the last post I made; I hope to scan or take some pictures of the completed set within the next few weeks to share with everyone. I'm not sure exactly what's next. I was looking through the album and saw 3 strong candidates for upgrades. Among them was an 1802 Draped Bust Cent in AG/G that simply looked dark and void of much life or detail. It's ashame because I like the early designs and having a bad coin like that can really bring down the set. This was one of the first coins that I purchased for the album, when I thought I might just go for a comparatively inexpensive pocket piece set. Later on, I decided that I really wanted the coins to span 4 centuries (and also representatives from each branch mint (S, D, O, CC.) The only hole in the 7070 sporting the possibility for an 18th century coin is the Draped Bust Cent Type (The Draped Half Cent was only issued 1800-1808.) So, I searched on ebay but could not find anything with the details I wanted. Until today. I also attended a coin show and saw a dealer with a lot of dark early coppers, each one priced for at least hundreds of dollars. I spent probably more than I can afford on this coin, and it will be the most expensive coin in the set by $300! So, let me have it how bad a deal was this? I'm not sure if this coin was corroded, environmentally damaged, or otherwise "ungradable." I do like the sharpness and the fact that it is not a dark coin. So, how would you grade it, and what do you think it's actually worth?   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1704 Posts |
It looks like it could have been painted red at one time and the paint has worn through from use in circulation. Quote:The Draped Half Cent was only issued 1800-1808.) This Half Cent covers two centuries, 1800 is the last year of the 18th century and the 1801-1808 cents are the first years of the 19th century so there are two coins in the album with representatives of the 18th century. Ed ANA LM-3175 |
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Valued Member
 United States
153 Posts |
I wanted a coin with a magical 17xx date to be included in the type set. They usually say a coin has had an old cleaning but... An old painting? That is a new one. If Van Gogh did the painting it might be worth something, otherwise I assume the value of the coin would be severly jeopardized and I should probably return it. Are you sure this is not some other form of damage, or perhaps even a type of luster? I do love the details on this coin, which typically are found in much worse condition.
Edited by coins4fun
11/21/2012 01:12 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
I would have done the set in 7070, coins are much easier to sell and you would know if the coin is truly messed with or not. Sometimes with raw coins, their is a reason why some of the more pricey ones aren't in a slab.
As long as your having fun, thats what counts but remember to take your time! Your gonna burn yourself out
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Valued Member
United States
489 Posts |
It has nice details. 7070 in a month... Wow! that is quick.
Having fun is what matters! Enjoy your coin!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I agree this coin has been painted as I have never seen anything in nature that would cause copper to turn that color. People have done all kinds of things to coins throughout history and heck this one could have been glued to some School project by some kid in the 1800's and they painted it then. You just never know what or who did it but I can tell you its not a natural occurrence. If I really liked the coin and got it at a good deal I may try acetone on the coin to see if it would remove the paint, the only problem I see with this is that the coin is copper and I have never experimented with acetone and copper so I have no idea what the results are. If you think you paid to much for a coin with these problems then by all means send it back because it is not what one would consider a problem free example even though it has great details
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Valued Member
United States
153 Posts |
I got the coin on ebay for just north of $700. That is a pretty penny, for me at least. Did I get a fair deal? I am really not an expert on this series, but I am aware how difficult it is to find an attractive example of this type (in this set, the only rival is perhaps the Classic Head Cent.) This is a 1797 rev 1797 with Stems, from what I can tell, and is the least scarce variety for the year. I believe this coin has at least XF Details (what do you think?) PCGS lists it as $1650 in 30, $2650 in 40, $3750 in 50 for a problem free example. Hate to bring up costs so much, but that is an integral part of the coin collecting hobby as it is so expensive (at least a few thousand) to complete a set even like this. What do you think a fair price would have been for this piece? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2120 Posts |
Honestly, you are looking at a VF details coin. As for price, it's hard to say on a problem coin like this. I would say If I wanted this date/variety I would probably only have paid about $300.
If you are looking for the type, I would have take that $700 and put it towards a problem free 1798, since you mentioned you wanted a 17xx.
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Valued Member
United States
153 Posts |
So, what do you guys think -- should I return it? I love the details on the coin but not sure I got a fair deal and would not like to spend several hundred more than it's worth (again, I paid $700 for it.) While one person said it is only a $300 coin, I find this hard to believe considering it was sold in a spiritd ebay auction, where other bidders were bidding $500-600 for it hours before it ended. I would also be curious if there are any experts on this series that have seen a similar coloration before, and would be able to identify it. I haven't paid for it yet and am debating whether or not to go through with it! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts |
I hope this collection is not putting too much of a strain on your finances because I remember reading that you were unemployed. With all the uncertainty, make sure you can take care of yourself and your family. Coins can always come later.
I think this coin is solidly into EF territory. There are a few problems, most obvious is the "red" which like others have mentioned might be paint. Acetone may help but I remember reading somewhere that you might not want to do it in the presence of sunlight. It also appears to have a bit of environmental damage including some pitting in the right obverse field. There are a few small rim bumps. Checking some auction records, I think you did alright. Not the bargain of the century but I don't think you grossly overpaid.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1888 Posts |
Solvents such as acetone or the stronger xylene, both available in hardware and home improvement stores, may indeed remove or loosen what is evidently some kind of paint from that coin. The result might be a very strong color contrast between the newly liberated surfaces and the old, dark patina. Are you OK with that? It's hard to predict what will happen if you soak the piece, because very old paint composition was much different than what has been made in the past 50 years or so. Most of today's paints are oil based, thus succeptible to common organic solvents. Paint in the 'olden days' was often made from animal fats and oils or plant extracts, which after they have 'set up', do not respond well to solvents but require more complex methods of removal which could very well give the coin the dreaded 'environmental damage' curse.
If it were my coin, I would try the safe, easy methods because there is a lot of potential for eye appeal improvement if they do work and that red stuff were made to be gone. I imagine paint-free wouldn't hurt the value much either. If the two solvents mentioned above do nothing, then be prepared to accept that it's a problem coin and will always be a problem coin. Stronger techniques might produce better results but experience tells me only a professional conservator should bother undertaking such a challenge.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6384 Posts |
I agree that if you just want a 1700's date for the set you can get a problem-free 1798 with similar detail for about that price.
I also agree this 1797 has close to EF details but the color issue is a deal-breaker in my opinion. I suppose it's possible you could remove the color with solvents and the result could have a nearly "normal" appearance in which case the $700 price would be a relative bargain for that date.
Will it work? To quote Billy Crystal as Miracle Max in The Princess Bride: "It'll take a miracle!"
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Valued Member
United States
153 Posts |
Thanks for your replies, and hope you had a nice Thanksgiving! So I'm still not sure if I got a reasonable deal @ $700 and more to the point if I should go through with the deal or not. Perhaps if I sent the coin to NCS they would be able to work a "miracle" on it. I would think using a solvent/acetone would further damage the coin/ it's value although I've never tried it. To me (and the other high bidders) the coin looked like an attractive example of this often badly beat up 17xx date. Interestingly, the 1797 is a somewhat challenging date (given 6/10 on the PCGS registry scale) and has an overall mintage of 900K compared to 1.85mil for the 1798.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
I wouldnt try and get the paint off who knows what the surface under it looks like. The paints not ideal but it actually doesn't look bad on this one
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I really can't think of anything that would cause a copper coin to urn that color naturally. The reason I say this again is because you are asking for opinions on if anyone thinks it could be natural and my answer is No I don't think it is. I wouldn't just not pay for the item though if I had placed a bid and won it though. I may contact the seller and tell him that I was uneducated when I bid on the item and have found out after the fact that the coin has problems and tell them that if it does in fact have those problems in hand that I will probably be sending it back for a refund and see if they decide to just cancel the deal. If they say well you bought it you have to pay I would do so and then do what I said if I was unhappy with the coin. It will cost you shipping back to him but just because you made a mistake doesn't give you the option of just not paying the seller who had nothing to do with that mistake. Some sellers may say they will cancel it but then you may also have some that refuse to do so.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
didn't catch my mistake oops. What I meant to say was that I would have done the set slabbed
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Replies: 25 / Views: 3,309 |
Posted 11/21/2012 01:12 am
