| Author |
 Replies: 11 / Views: 1,990 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
919 Posts |
Let me start by saying I am not trying to start a raw vs slabbed fight. I am trying to learn from those with experience when silver was low. I'm also not trying to start a fight about where silver is going. Please don't take this question in that direction.
I'm looking to buy a roll of MS63/64 common date Morgans as a fun/educational investment (from a LCS and hand picked). I will either buy 20 raw or 20 slabbed coins. I was hoping someone that was around when silver was under $10 an oz would weigh in. If you were buying and selling back then did one of these forms hold up better then the other? There seems to be about a $15-25 premium for slabbed over graded (MS63 to MS64). Was that the case back when silver was $6 an oz? I can get raw MS63/64 for about $45 and slabbed for about $60 and $75. That is how I came up with the premium range.
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
6384 Posts |
At that price difference I'd go for the raw. We must assume that the raw coins are legitimate MS-63 or '64 coins, without problems like cleaning, rim dings, or negative eye appeal. If your hand-picking dealer is honest and has a good eye the lower cost I think is decisive.
In the real world it's usually the case that the slabbed pieces are the nicer ones and were submitted in the first place because they were perceived to be above average, maybe even with a shot at MS-65.
Also, it's extremely important that we are talking about PCGS, NGC, ANACS, or ICG slabs here. Any other grading services are likely to slab problem coins without identifying the problems. Such coins sell for little or no premium over raw.
Please share some photos of your new purchases!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
919 Posts |
Jaobler, thanks for the reply. Yes I would only go with either PCGS or NGC. It's hard to tell the difference between a 63 and 64 raw. I think the TPG Companies have trouble with that and they do it for a living. The only thing I'm not sure about is how to tell if dipped and if that matters. Cleaned is pretty easy for me to spot unless done professionally and that catches a lot of people. Still working on the picture part. I joined about a month ago and have not mastered that yet. I find I don't have enough lighting so my pics come out dark. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
The mantra from the 60's and 70's was always buy the highest grade you can afford. Common dates of average grade (i.e. MS63) would follow the silver market. 40+ years later this has held true. I would agree with Jaobler that this would be a bullion investment, not a numismatic investment. Go raw.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
77 Posts |
As long as an UNC is properly dipped, it doesn't directly matter, especially at bullion level. Although, if it's dipped too long, too many times, or not cleaned properly afterwards, then there are problems.
As for a premium for a slab, I wouldn't. IMHO - A slab is a professional's confirmation that in his opinion the piece is what is being claimed. A properly graded 63 raw and a properly graded 63 slabbed is the same coin in value.
That being said, when NOT dealing with bullion, I feel slabs are better at getting their full value at online auctions, as you really can grade only just so well off photos.
Edited by linxlvr
12/13/2012 2:34 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
919 Posts |
Thanks SeatedNut and linxlvr. I guess I was thinking MS63/64 was a little better then just bullion but with so many Morgans in this grade I guess I see what you are saying. I have many EF/AU Peace and Morgans for bullion, I guess this would be "high grade" bullion.
Where I'm torn is the last statement. In the end I will sell them so since slabs get better prices I don't know. I'm hoping someone that was buying/selling when silver dropped to $5 an oz weighs in. I just want to know if the premiums stayed in place. That is, did the raw MS63/64's sell for $10-15 a piece and the slabbed stay at $30-40 or did the gap close? Wild everytime I think about $5 silver and $300 gold.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
If your doing this for investment, don't do it. Do this only if you like coins and enjoy them and don't mind losing money or even making money
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
919 Posts |
Thanks for the honesty mkman123. If it were an investment I would probably go the cheaper route and just by a roll of a single date like 1885,86,etc. I plan to buy as many different date commons as I can. I guess it is a round about way to start to collect them. I collect MS67 CAC Walkers right now so I'm not looking to start a set but these looked interesting and I have been buying Peace and Morgans off and on around spot for a few years. Kind of like the proof sets I was trying to get from you. Not the cheapest way to buy 90% silver but the proof coin was more interesting to me then a roll of EF Franklins.
I'm going to search HA for early 2000 auctions but still hoping someone can compare raw and slabbed prices back when silver was $5.
|
|
Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
I'm going to search HA for early 2000 auctions but still hoping someone can compare raw and slabbed prices back when silver was $5 Data wouldn't be relevant today; silver prices didn't happen in a vacuum. TPG's were in a different position then. The collecting populace was less well-informed, and it wasn't as obvious that low and mid-MS slabs were a glut in the marketplace. So you would probably see a greater disparity in pricing than you would today. Meanwhile, today we enjoy a far wider circle of availability considering the Ebays and Heritages of the world, while we're still in a period of economic uncertainty causing folks to move money into metals which they might not otherwise. The end result might be "no change from the last time," but the factors affecting the result would be different. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Israel
2420 Posts |
IMO, a decent bullion investment would be buying low grade, raw, common date, UNC Morgans (MS60-MS63). These could still be purchased for 33-37$, and have a very little downside (i.e., if POS drops significantly, you can bet that their premium over the POS will rise). On the other hand, if silver price rise, their premium would probably not keep up (percent wise), but you should still enjoy a decent ROI. And on top of all of that - I just love the look of a large, UNC, Morgan collection (when looking at all of them, one can't even see the dates  ). |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
919 Posts |
Great points everyone. I agree about the "look". Looking at 20 ASE's laying out on the table is nothing like looking at 20 UNC Morgans or Peace dollars. I thank all of you for your opinions. Thank you for not turning this into a debate about slabbed vs raw. I was always leaning towards the raw but am only hesitant because I believe when my heirs take these in (I don't plan to do it) a dealer has a harder time low balling slabbed coins. Raw graded UNC's bring arguments and non-coin people would have a hard time knowing what to do. Who knows, in 20 years maybe there will be a new way to sell coins and those that take advantage of people will finally loose (wishful thinking). I may go with a couple slabbed to leave examples along with the many raws. The good news is this string put me over 100 posts. I have really enjoyed my last month officially logged in. For a while I sat back as a guest. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
36744 Posts |
Always buy the coin and not the holder. You can get 4 raw MS63 Morgans for the price of 3 slabbed MS63s. Non coin people selling slabbed Morgans can get ripped off just as bad as selling raw coins. Learn to grade and stick with the raw coins and you should make out better over time with your investment.
|
| |
Replies: 11 / Views: 1,990 |
|
Posted 12/13/2012 11:49 am
