1883 S Morgan Grade? - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 14 / Views: 2,019
Eastwood501 New Member Australia 12 Posts	Posted 12/16/2012 8:27 pm Hi forum, I have this coin a dealer is trying to sell me, a San Fran 1883 Morgan dollar. What in your opinion does it grade as? He is suggesting MS65. I can just make out the S mintmark, but I am not sure if this coin would be worth anything. The dealer is offereing a $600 pricetag. So guys what does it grade as? And does it have any value, I know a google search would tell me but, I'm not sure of the grade and therefore the value. The coin is in a 2x2 holder hence the stange reflections Cheers. Report this Post to the Staff

nlp coins Pillar of the Community United States 2373 Posts	Posted 12/16/2012 9:27 pm An MS65 1883-S Morgan bids for $44,500. If it was that good I would be packing it carefully for a PCGS submital and then to auction. Better pictures would be needed for grading but it doesn't look like the coin has too many bag marks. In MS60 or better the coin is worth more than $500 but it would have to be problem free. If dipped too harshly it will not be problem free and only worth about $100. nlp Report this Post to the Staff
twohawks Pillar of the Community United States 1551 Posts	Posted 12/17/2012 11:54 am I would need better photos as Noel stated. The discoloration on the reverse is a concern as well as the luster. The 2x2 could be the cause of the luster, but the other is not the 2x2. The main Concern should be...If this is an MS-63,MS-64 or a MS-65 as the dealer states. Why Is it not In A TPG Holder? Noel has the values right, the biggest concern you should have is Why a "Dealer" is selling a 3,000.00 too 40,000.00 coin to you for only $500.00? Edited by twohawks 12/17/2012 11:55 am Report this Post to the Staff
IndianGoldEagle Bedrock of the Community United States 36744 Posts	Posted 12/17/2012 12:11 pm Hard to tell from these photos. You might want to carefully remove the coin from the 2x2 and shoot some new photos. If these are the sellers photos I would ask him for better shots. As the others have said, the price indicates there is a problem with the coin. Report this Post to the Staff
Jaobler Pillar of the Community United States 6384 Posts	Posted 12/20/2012 10:20 am Much better photos are needed to make any valid estimate on grade. The coin appears to have little or no wear and the cheek and fields seem mostly mark-free. With that minimal information this could be any grade from an over-dipped "slider" AU to a gem uncirculated piece worth tens of thousands. It could also be a deceptive counterfeit, not even made of silver. First I'd check the weight and do the magnet test to rule out a crude fake scenario. Then I'd carefully examine the coin for original luster quality, hairline scratches from abrasive cleaning, and tooling marks or evidence of "smoothing" to remove marks. I'd also examine the edge reeds; they should be uniform, sharply defined, and lustrous if the coin is uncirculated. Your dealer might be offering you a high-value coin at an extreme bargain price, but I wouldn't bet $600 on it without due diligence. Report this Post to the Staff
ocsjr2001 Valued Member United States 133 Posts	Posted 12/21/2012 10:46 am Looks to me like the mint mark sets too high. There are only 11 VAMs listed for the '83S with most of the changes being the obverse die. I see one for the mint mark slanted but none with a high mint mark. Be very careful and do your homework before buying. Report this Post to the Staff
Coinfanmorgan Valued Member 357 Posts	Posted 12/24/2012 11:49 pm Better pictures please. Edited by Coinfanmorgan 12/24/2012 11:51 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Windycity Valued Member United States 366 Posts	Posted 12/31/2012 5:19 pm Be careful when the price is too good to be true. Knowledge is power... learn the Morgan series, learn to grade and how to recognize cleaned, AT, whizzed, thumbed, and otherwise altered coins. Report this Post to the Staff
morgandude Valued Member United States 380 Posts	Posted 12/31/2012 6:55 pm I agree the S is WAY too high! In my opinion it is MS61 Report this Post to the Staff
vtpokerguy New Member United States 34 Posts	Posted 12/31/2012 9:19 pm Be careful when the price is too good to be true. Knowledge is power... learn the Morgan series, learn to grade and how to recognize cleaned, AT, whizzed, thumbed, and otherwise altered coins. Hi, Could you tell me what whizzed,thumbed,AT mean. Thanks from a real novice. Report this Post to the Staff
SsuperDdave Moderator United States 23522 Posts	Posted 12/31/2012 9:37 pm Welcome to Coin Community, vtpokerguy. I'm originally from Bennington myself. Here's the answer to your questions: http://www.coincommunity.com/dictionary/ Report this Post to the Staff
vtpokerguy New Member United States 34 Posts	Posted 12/31/2012 9:45 pm Thanks super dave Report this Post to the Staff
aladinslamp Pillar of the Community United States 3076 Posts	Posted 01/03/2013 12:59 am one of the great things, people do is give an an opinion of a crappy picture....the other thing is.. MANY people want to comment...and give HIGH grades for POOR PHOTO's...consistantly, good photo's allow SLAMS for the smallest of details................ such is the opinion of online graders........YET........... THERER IS nothing different from the major TPG's than which we see in these online opinions....?The fact is its about the MONEY....The Billions these people already have in there known inventory......ACCEPTED VALUEs........IF there are say 3 known MS67's of say any year...would the market allow 10 more of the same grade into the population? or allow them to be the grade lower to protect the MONEY already spent in "perfetecting" there investments... Report this Post to the Staff
aladinslamp Pillar of the Community United States 3076 Posts	Posted 01/05/2013 01:34 am I need to add some comments to this post as I don't want to let the originator of this post to think that I am aiming any comment at them... There's is a very honest question brought to the forum here... WHY such a HIGH priced coins could be bought at such a low price....? The 1883-s is a very nice coin in which in higher grades will escalate the price..EXPONENTIALLY.... Lets look for example of the fair market values which are simply about what one would expect to pay for basic retail pricing of coins on the market...you can google up coins fair market value to get a BASIC Idea here. yet many dealers will sell closer to the grey sheet listings most of us use to get an idea of what profit margin or investment angle we have....to any coin if we where to sell it tomorrow even if we just bought it today...Wear-as most realize it will be some years for inflation to push the coin values up beyond what they are today... SOME coins are splendidly Plenty-full..in the MS65 grade and such a coin is the 1881-s which has superb strikes as well... Hence the common $160 range for value.......simply to many of them out there in that grade.. Back now to the 1883-s....Its a very "GRADE" sensitive year. \ There is not really a shortage of the year but there is for the grade.......Up to AU50...its around $100 and when you get to AU55 its about $180 at AU58.. Which is the considered slider coin for most coins in grading.Simply great but some how "doesn't" make it to the MS level..At AU58 its just short of $300.......AT MS 60....the climb begins..... its just shy of $500.......honestly I can't remember when I have seen a coin graded MS60? I've been collecting since the early 1960's? HOWEVER the Value of the 1883-s...will skyrocket after MS60 some $500 to some $40,000 at the MS level of 65..... As a minty fresh.. grade sensitive as it is... the TPG's have decided to strickley enhance there grading beyond the past levels.....EVERY dealer in the past enhanced or juiced there coins to keep the coin the blast white... before the TPG's took over....today they call it a cleaned coin LOL..........but today they have all the money {BILLIONS} involved with submissions to insure or protect the values....given by the grade.... This is kind of why....granny's collection which no body new about, suddenly inputs high end coins into the registry.....numbers. Now to your coin..is it grade worthy? or it could be a fabulous grade which has been cleaned.....which would suffer in price but still be a cool coin. \ one thing I mentioned in my first post is.......The pictures ITs not me talking about you the poster...... its ME SIMPLY SAYING if you want an honest assumption...... PLEASE lets have some good photo's.......DETAILED AS for your situation....knowning how to grade is most important.....If I knew the coin was real, but cleaned, and looked MS 65..$500 It would be a no brainer......ITs a two part thing......so thanks to you for asking to question here.G. Report this Post to the Staff
westcoin Pillar of the Community United States 9792 Posts	Posted 01/31/2013 9:45 pm Just so you know whats possible in coin photography check out Heritage Coins auction listings for some state of the art photos (free to register) http://www.ha.com No way I'd buy that coin without it being in a PCGS holder, maybe an NGC but not for 65 money. The coin would have to be pretty spectacular as well. The one I'm seeing in the photos posted doesn't seem right, something says fake to me. But be careful on making a large monetary purchase without a trusted adviser's opinion. Also I am also suspect this coin is coming from Australia and not the US no surprise it's not graded me thinks. Just my Two Cents worth. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 Report this Post to the Staff
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