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 Replies: 19 / Views: 2,625 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4337 Posts |
As an avid collector of classic US coinage I am often confused as to what the "real" FMV is and what drives it. I see lots of prices on auction sites that do not match up at all with what Numismedia calls FMV. Now, this is on certain coins only and to be fair, in most cases it is the "Buy It Now" dreamers who are dreaming with regards to their asking price. But I only demean their asking price because I am comparing to Numismedia FMV. Long story short: any dealers or brick and mortar retail owners care to chime in as what they base their retail on and on the question to all of the CCF, as a collector, do you make a purchasing decision based on FMV data comparisons or more on your personal want of the coin in question? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
I absolutely will not pay more for a coin than average completed auction prices on ebay. Consequently I don't buy a lot of coins. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
When I make a decision to buy, FMV is just about at the very back of mind, and only a vague reference as to what the item may be valued at. For me a list of FMV's is only a vague guide as to the value of an item that I may be considering to buy.
Like most, I am always in the hunt for good value for money. Since I collect ALL coins, ancient to modern, I can cherry pick across the whole of numismatics, except that I am not very interested in NCLT, or any coinage later than about 1960.
Therefore, the second question I ask myself is 'Is this coin a fake?
The third question: 'Is it good value for money?'
The first question: 'Do I want this coin?'
All three considerations are of equal importance.
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Pillar of the Community
861 Posts |
"I absolutely will not pay more for a coin than average completed auction prices on ebay" Excellent advice |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1704 Posts |
Historically fair market value is approximately 80% of auction prices realized over a given period of time though that has changed at the present. Auctions in conjunction with the major coin shows and Heritage Auctions' regular sales are the primary indicators of where the market is. A coin wholesaler I know gets hourly updates on the buy and sell prices of gold coins as that market is so sensitive to the spot price of gold at any given time during the day. I don't buy coins off of ebay. The prices realized on ebay is so out of touch with reality. The coins I have sold on ebay sold for less than I could have sold them for to collectors attending the flea markets I sell at. Those collectors carry either a copy of Coin Prices or the Grey Sheet. Ed ANA LM-3175 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
I totally understand not selling on ebay if you can do better elsewhere. I've never understood the claim that ebay prices aren't "real". It's an actual marketplace with multiple participants where items are sold on a regular basis. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4337 Posts |
Quote:I've never understood the claim that ebay prices aren't "real". It's an actual marketplace with multiple participants where items are sold on a regular basis.  Although, do we take into consideration that some percentage of ebay historic auction prices are driven from buyers who do not have an in-depth understanding of numismatics and subsequent value? The question is what percentage? And do we also have to discount this statement/question when it comes to well known coins such as a 16-D 10c. or anything else in that coins category of rarity? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
521 Posts |
This is a newbie's take: It seems FMV is relative to whatever a certain group of buyers (or bidders) is willing to pay regardless of price listings. Thanks to this forum I have been made aware of numerous price sources and I honestly find them a bit confusing. I started by using the Red Book and thought I was getting bargains on ebay. Then I started using Numismedia and found many coins go for higher than listed value. Perhaps I will move on to the greysheet next. One of my LCS has a weekly silent auction on a bid board. Coins come from the dealer and local (trusted) sellers. I have found that I really like this. First, I can see and hold the coins as opposed to just looking at pictures. Second, the starting bids seem to be pretty good, much lower than I've seen in coin shops, on ebay (generally) and the one show I've gone to. Finally, while some bids go high because a bidder or bidders have their eyes on a certain piece, others stay low. As sel 691 does, I too collect across a broad spectrum. This allows me more flexibility in getting a good price. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:Although, do we take into consideration that some percentage of ebay historic auction prices are driven from buyers who do not have an in-depth understanding of numismatics and subsequent value? The question is what percentage? Most series will have enough completed sales that you can get a market range and just ignore the small amount that go real high or real low. Most people even if they dont know that series can look up price values and other auctions ect since it is online, I would suspect that the number of buyers that really have 0 clue is smaller than we think. Then of course theres also availability for some coins. Even though numis may have something for say 150 if youre having a real hard time finding one or one you like youll pay more so you dont lose out, but that happens everywhere not just ebay |
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Valued Member
United States
386 Posts |
My experienc is that my LCS sells Morgans for approximately 9% less than Numismedia FMV listings.
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Valued Member
United States
168 Posts |
I offer coins in my inventory for what I believe is a fair price to the buyer and to myself. This takes into account not only what similarly graded coins have sold for at auction, but also the individual qualities of the particular coin and how "choice" the coin is for the grade. Sometimes, this will seem like quite a bit for those without experience in the niche while at other times folks might be surprised at how relatively low something will be offered.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
548 Posts |
ebay prices will tend to be lower than market because the buyer can't hold the coin in their hands and truly evaluate it.
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Valued Member
United States
366 Posts |
FMV is what a buyer will pay and what a seller will accept. Eye appeal, luster, strike, color, etc, all come into play and the value is determined by all of the above. Some auction prices reflect spectacular examples and others not so much... so auction prices are a tool but not the answer. Quality always commands a premium... when buying and selling.
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Valued Member
United States
77 Posts |
IMHO: Personally, I use the greysheet, and understand that I am a retail customer. :-) That said, some pieces are seemingly not reflected accurately at certain points in time there either. Before you know the market to the point of confidence in your own assessment of it, perhaps get a greysheet and figure 20% over bid as a purchase price, 20% back of bid as a price a dealer will buy at, and you can usually get just over bid on ebay with honest photos and descriptions. Then subtract 20% for ebay, paypal, S&H, time to set up auctions, etc. :-) Now those are specific numbers off specific sheets. It is NOT that simple. I'm just trying to give you a starting point. If your selling to a dealer a prime piece for the grade and date, he MAY do much better, especially if your a regular customer. If your walking in with 10 boxes of 1973 clad proof sets, he MAY tell you he doesn't want them at any price. I should also mention, the above is for gradable coins. Bodybag coins are a completely different animal. If I had to sell one, I would probably use ebay and describe it accurately, as it seems to me that buyers seem to pay quite high for known problem coins (say in a genuine or details holder) compared to what I would expect to get. HTH, YMMV |
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Valued Member
United States
168 Posts |
The post by linxlvr brings up a good point. Material that is commonly traded is either slightly overvalued or is accurately valued on the Greysheet while more scarce material is generally undervalued. I will not get into the politics or theory why this is the case, but it is the case. As an example, most classic commems are fully priced in the Greysheet and are tough to move at those levels unless they are superb for the grade. Morgan dollars are also generally properly priced and sell close to the prices indicated. Better date Seated and Barber coins, however, are wildly underpriced and have been like this for years. It is not unusal to be required to pay 2x or even 3x Greysheet to obtain nicer Barber and Seated material and this is for accurately graded pieces where the buyer is educated and is not being ripped off. |
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Valued Member
United States
77 Posts |
Yes TomB, you really read my mind with the Barbers. :-)
I was trying to do Barber halfs in vf, and to be frank I gave up and am waiting for that market to settle down. :-(
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Replies: 19 / Views: 2,625 |
Posted 12/26/2012 4:59 pm
