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 Replies: 11 / Views: 1,431 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
814 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2490 Posts |
I wouldn't go near that with a naked flame! My guess is that the toning is highly artificial and has possibly been achieved using a solvent like petrol (gasoline)
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3167 Posts |
Somethings defenitely up...wouldn't pay more than face unless I knew exactly how it was toned...
Edited by noahs-numismatics
02/15/2013 7:21 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
731 Posts |
My opinion is that it's AT granny bait.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
IMHO, the toning on this item occurred gradually. I had some silver bars and rounds which I long kept, twenty years or so, in an old but very clean, oak tool chest, lined with felt. Most of the one ounce silver bars/rounds were in kept in envelopes. They were beautifully toned, awash with rainbow colors, similar to the subject item, and they brought a premium as such when sold.
While many of us coin collectors tend to see little more than bullion value when it comes to these silver items, they are nevertheless quite collectable. Given the toning, this one's quite attractive. The bidding, now significantly above melt value, seems to be reflecting the aesthetic appeal of this bar.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2490 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
814 Posts |
i didnt bid on it.....wasnt sure...it went for like 45 bucks or something...i spent all my money at the flea market yesterday on 1oz silver maple bullion coins anyway...got a good deal...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
731 Posts |
I'm with Algan on this. The specimen screams AT (artificial toning)
Edited by CheetahCats
02/17/2013 9:00 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
My curiosity having been aroused by this thread, I took a look in my antique tool chest today to see how some older silver bars were faring. I found two, Patrick Mint products, a stagecoach and a Model T Ford, which have toned "naturally" therein for twenty years or thereabouts. While I was able to scan them, the files are somehow two large to download. I'm technically challenged!
The stagecoach bar was laying "au natural" on the felt, having turned a largely orange hue with splashes of white. The Ford bar, tucked in an old flip, has turned electric blue with hints of other colors. My pics/scans don't do either bar justice, as I'm unable to capture the colors which are every bit as vibrant as those on the train bar. Both of my bars exhibit the splash effect, too, as seen on the subject, train bar.
Summarily, I'm at a loss as to how some of you folks can distinguish AT from ET - Environmental Toning. Maybe, some day, I'll get it? ;-)
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2490 Posts |
Do your two bars have colours that fall exactly within the lines of the design? The train looks idealised, as though someone was filling in a painting-by-numbers canvas. In short, the toning is too neat, too precise and 99.99% unlikely to have occurred naturally.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
Yes, alganbagerap, the color varies at different depths of the designs; this, more so with the one that was outside a flip. There's a similar effect of clouds, above a light field, too. The color variations aren't as prominent as they appear on the train, but they are there. I can appreciate what you're saying, alganbagerap, as the train looks ever so colorful, as it may have been painted. My two bars are not as eye-catching, yet the shading/contrast effect is quite similar, over all. The stagecoach has very light areas between the wheel spokes, and the sky appears to have clouds. Like the train, the stage and the Ford are struck in high relief. The lower relief reverses exhibit far less contrast and more subdued toning.
Regardless of whether the train was artificially or environmentally toned, IMHO. the sale price was reasonable. It's eye-cathing, arty look certainly appeals to me; not so, the enameled coins that are out there. Folks nowadays pay far more for mediocre, office wall hangings.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1511 Posts |
Personally I love toned coins, absolutely love them! if I like the toning and its not outrageous, I will pay above melt even I I know it's AT'ed..
That being said.. I'm not sure this one was AT'ed, but even if it was if I liked trains I would have paid a premium for it as it looked amazing!
As mentioned it looked painted, and that sounds more plausible than someone toning it that precise. There's some people out here that are pretty darn good at ATing coins.. But the methods used it would almost, if not certainly be impossible to only get the toning to fall into those small spaces.. People can manipulate where the toning goes but not even close to that extent. I honestly would think that one could be natrual.
This one was not anodized in liquid with electricity.. There's no way they would have gotten it that precise... No way at all. I've watched many videos on that, including the one previously posted and if it was AT'ed that's not how it was done. Also, I'm sure the seller manipulated the light and tilted the coin to make the toning really stand out, I'd be willing to bet it's nowhere near that sharp or bright when normally looking at it.. In fact in a few of the lower pics of it it's hardly visible at all, which is how it probably looks in hand.
The toning is blotchy and missing in places as you would expect to see in a NT'ed coin, not uniform and full from an AT. And the color spectrums seem to match up pretty well also, no colors that wouldn't appear next to each other like an AT'ed coin.. I can't really explain it well but the colors in NT'ed coins progress to the next spectrum of light, or to the next cor in a rainbow.. Therefore you shouldn't see purple next to yellow in a NT coin. Yellow to orange, orange to red.. Or back and forth, Etc.. And most of the time toning starts on the lowest points of the coin and works its way up to the higher relief... So.. I don't know.. I'd say this one could be natrual.. If its artificial then it's a work of art! But if I liked trains it wouldn't have mattered to me.. I would have bought it either way..
And also.. What's natrual and what's artificial? So if it tones in a album after 30 years it's still no more natrual than someone putting it in an envelope on the window for a year, or burying it, or how ever else people have figured out how to do it... It's the same chemical reaction. I suppose using electralisis is pushing it.. But it's the same elements toning the coin... People just realized how to speed up the prosess even more.
What's to say about those NT'ed monster Morgan's that sell for a couple grand for common dates? Who knows how those have been toned.. 50 years ago someone could have very well figured this out and artificially toned them.. But there NT because its done a while ago? We can call it album, or roll toning all we want but in reality we have no idea how they were toned... I dont know.. Just sayin..
Tonings a tricky subject and will always be debated.. Lol.
Edited by NathanASE
02/17/2013 10:24 pm
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Replies: 11 / Views: 1,431 |
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Posted 02/15/2013 7:20 pm
