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 Replies: 20 / Views: 2,918 |
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Valued Member
United States
386 Posts |
A collector-friend was looking to sell this Morgan. I only had my phone with me so these pics are poor (I messed up the obverse pic; the shadow falls right on the date area):   I might have to change the reverse pic as I'm doing this. I only had a chance to look at it for a minute or so. I'll get a better look this Sunday. Since it is raw, I was checking for the obvious markers for "fake". - The 1 at the denticles appeared to be in the right position. - The 3 looked right. - I didn't get a chance to check the T and Y in Liberty for the lines. - I didn't get a chance to see the line near the lower wheat leaf. - The S looked ok, and appears to be VAM 1 placement. The coin does have a few issues: - It has a denticle ding from another coin in the lower neck area. - It has a minor rim ding on the obverse. - It has a few major and moderate/minor rim dings on the reverse. * I haven't checked this against known Chinese fakes, like the 1921 reverse, etc... I don't have a lot of expertise for the 1893-S because I rarely see them and do not own one. Although these pics are not great, I was wondering if someone knowledgeable see's anything on this that screams fake. The owner is looking at this coin being VF-20 with some issues. With the issues I have written, how much would it affect the price? |
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Valued Member
 United States
386 Posts |
As I suspected, the reverse pic is too small. I'll try to post a bigger one.
* edit: The reverse pic cannot be enlarged. I will try to grab a set of good pics with my camera tomorrow.
Edited by sjh241
03/01/2013 8:41 pm
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Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
When I see any recent topic titled "1893-S Morgan", I jump right on it. I'm not going to give any opinions until you supply the better pics. A date that must be in a major TPG holder. swcoin.ecrater.com
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Valued Member
United States
386 Posts |
I should get better pics tomorrow and not have to wait till Sunday.
I actually had the chance today to compare it side-by-side to another 1893-S Morgan (at or near XF-40 condition).
Everything matched-up, except the one I'm trying to show has the issues I mentioned while the other does not.
The Morgan that I am picturing will be at the Sunday show in Parsippany NJ and is for sale. It is consigned to a dealer that I know.
Edited by sjh241
03/01/2013 8:53 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
I'm with Dave, we'll need to see better pictures of this preferably outside of the 2 x 2.
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Valued Member
United States
386 Posts |
Just spoke with the person this is consigned to. We arranged for pics tomorrow.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Some people revere the 1893-S Morgan like the 1909-S VDB Lincoln. Actually the 1893-S Morgan is far more scarce than the Lincoln; with less than 10,000 pieces known to exist. With the number of Morgan collectors in the world, there is intense demand for this date and a commensurately high price. Assuming the coin pictured is a genuine 1893-S Morgan with XF Details, you have a $4,000 piece at a minimum. It has to be professionally authenticated before purchase. There's no other way to pay the kind of money this coin is worth. If your collector friend can wait for professional TPG, then consider buying it. |
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Valued Member
United States
386 Posts |
As promised, here are some better pics of the Morgan out of the flip:   I did a full check of the coin: 1. Magnet test: not magnetic. 2. Weigh test: 26.6 3. Obverse markers: - 1 at correct denticle position - 9 and 3 raised - 9 and 3 appear correct (not altered). - "Rabbit ears" appear in R of LIBERTY. - Line appears in T of LIBERTY - Line appears to left of lower wheat leaf. 4. Reverse markers: - S in correct position for VAM1. I am looking for opinions on grade. Value would also be appreciated. The main detractors are the 3 rim dings on the reverse (10 and 11 o'clock). There is also a small rim ding on the obverse, and another small one of the reverse (4 total on the reverse). Thanks for any opinions. Edited by sjh241
03/02/2013 5:51 pm
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Valued Member
United States
386 Posts |
As an added bonus yesterday and today, I got to see and handle these two together (the pics above are the Morgan on the right):   Edited by sjh241
03/02/2013 5:59 pm
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Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
I would say authentic. Mid VF range. Issues don't look terribly bad with your new photos.
May have an old wipe.
Lets see what others think.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1388 Posts |
I'm wondering where SsuperDdave is...
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Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
He's coming  swcoin.ecrater.com
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
I'm wondering where SsuperDdave is... Watching the Nationwide race.  I'm seeing cause for worry with the color - the toning is too "new" in the progression of hues, making me think it may have suffered a cleaning of some sort and is now recovering. Either way, it's right on the edge (probably over that edge) of XF Details and as BH1964 mentioned it's likely a $4k+ coin. It's my belief that a lot of money will be left on the table by trying to sell it raw - it needs to go to PCGS and appear in a Heritage auction. |
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Valued Member
United States
386 Posts |
I also have some extra shots of the main rim dings, and a pic holding the Morgan while looking at the reeding to see how these dings pushed the metal if they are needed.
I was grading this as a mid to higher VF but wasn't sure if there would be a net grade for the rim dings (something like VF-20). I wasn't considering an old cleaning.
Ssuperdave, you would grade this as a XF Details?
Edited by sjh241
03/02/2013 6:26 pm
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Although it's quite possible those rim dings might generate a Details grade even if the color doesn't, they're not so distracting as to lessen the value of the coin beyond the "standard deduction" for Details grading. The industry has pretty much abandoned the concept of "Net" grading - estimating a grade-related value of a Details coin - in favor of stating it's a "Details" coin with an accurate assessment of technical wear. So, yeah, I think this one makes XF Details.
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Valued Member
United States
386 Posts |
Thanks so far for the feedback. I'm going to throw up the pics of the second 1893-S for a consensus grade. However, this Morgan is not for sale, just grading.
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Replies: 20 / Views: 2,918 |
Posted 03/01/2013 8:46 pm
