1863 Frankfurt Thaler - Real?

In addition - I should have added I'm quite sure it is a fake.

John is right.


The coin is a cast fake - PERIOD no possibility it is real. I am presently trying to have this seller suspended permanently. He is part of a major Chinese group of forgers selling the same pressure cast copies. Just take a peak at his other postings for a rogues gallery of forgeries. Copy his photos and scrupulously avoid similar offerings.

He also is an extortionist. Check out the threat regarding leaving feedback. The only way he refunds is AFTER you post positive feedback.

Scam artist - AVOID AVOID. JUNK COINS ALL FAKES.

RUN away Fast.

The coin is a GREAT fake. Nearly perfect when viewed in a picture. All alone in a picture I might not notice the toning problems and I might have failed to pick up any problems with this one at all. It really looks struck.

I would love to own this one if it was under $35 or so.

The one and only serious issue I see is the rim damage at about UST in AUGUST on the date side (near 4 o'clock).

You might say at this point "What damage?"

This coin has an apparently intact rim and edge. Nice smooth arc all through that area.

However, if you trace the arc of the inside of the upset rim it bends inward rapidly at that point and touches the beads.

So how did that get there?

My only answer is that the original coin had actual edge damage that bent the upset rim inward. So when the face image was transferred it had the damage. BUT when they made the dies or molds from the image they outlined the coin with a circle.

Edge bumps are notoriously hard to cast copy or strike copy for that matter.

That is a serious error BUT it now and for all time identified and it proves this die pair as a fake. I have copied his pictures and placed them in my forgery archive.

I really love it when a counterfeiter posts such nice photographs.

Of course I found out recently that a badly focused picture is adequate grounds for Safety and Security to cancel an auction. So that excuse can be used when an auction is believed to be a fake but proof is only at the 99% level. This does provide some leeway in terminating auctions and asking for CLEARER photos. Hopefully nice clear pictures will then provide the proof so that the coin can never be posted again.

But since this auction has great pictures another reason to terminate might be needed. My second complaint about this auction is the seller's EXTORTION of positive feed backs by holding refunds hostage.

For future reference - the molds/dies in this case also carry gouges on the building facade in a pattern that can be matched to future copies - should they correct the rim error. It would be nearly impossible to tool out the scratches so this die pair is now HISTORY.

As an update - please notice the auction has been terminated as were all of his other auctions. All fakes.

Also check Advanced search under mj0918 (his bidder name) and notice he is no longer a registered member.

He has been permanently suspended.

And feedback extortion is a valid reason for termination and suspension.

Because this case involved two violations the suspension is permanent.

One down a couple million to go.

Bacchus2 - thank you for finding a great target.

One of the tell-tale signs on these China fakes are air bubbles or raised small metal bumps on the coin. Your coin had no air bubbles but it was seen on the 1765 German coin almost like a central dot on the coin. After awhile you get a feel for these alloys also and their dull colors ... not easy ... the beginner collector does not stand a chance with these pieces ... if you buy from China buy a slab ... yeah I know still no guarantee ... if you are a gambler ... <BG>.

I think you seen that Maria ... something E-Bay seller ... she, he or it seems honest?

Wow

Very impressive work

Thank You