1883-CC PCGS MS-64-Pl - Is This A VAM-4?

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Author	Replies: 7 / Views: 1,788
oih82w8 Pillar of the Community United States 7840 Posts	Posted 03/07/2013 10:51 am I started a different thread for my 1883-CC PCGS MS64PL to see if this one is a VAM-4 as well. The markers are the same as the 1883-CC Crescent Moon Toned GSA (date doubling and dash under the second 8 and debris above the 3, first two stars to the right of the date and the crack above UNUM) plus there is an additional clash mark of Liberty's nose and lips on the inside of the left hand wreath on the reverse. Here are some of the markers from the original images; Points of interest; the date (second 8 has a dash below and the 3 has and area above, and the two stars on the right of the date has some distinguishing marks on the lower right areas) Die Crack above UNUM Die clash/doubling of the lips and chin. Point of interest: the first "C" in "CC" has something (diagonal line?) within the letter. The reverse clash marks are not really visible on the original images, but I will take some when I get back to the house tonight. http://www.vamworld.com/1883-CC+VAM-4 Edited by oih82w8 03/07/2013 10:57 am Report this Post to the Staff

SsuperDdave Moderator United States 23522 Posts	Posted 03/07/2013 3:56 pm OK, I am now officially in the weeds on this VAM. There are two 1883-CC VAMs using the same obverse - VAM-4 and VAM-8. Only the reverses differ. Unfortunately, the available data at VAMworld blurs the distinction badly. The obvious difference between the two should be the mint mark location....but it's not that easy. The detail images for VAM-4A show a different mint mark location and orientation - the same as VAM-8 - than VAM-4. 4 doesn't have mint mark details, and 4A doesn't have large full-face imagery. VAM-8 and 8A are more consistent. I have to throw a thread up on VAMworld to see if we can get this cleared up. In the meantime, please stand by.... Report this Post to the Staff
dave700x Rest in Peace United States 10625 Posts	Posted 03/07/2013 9:24 pm After sifting through the VAMworld pages, I think I'm on board with VAM-8A. Wait a minute, the VAM-8A is listed as an earlier obverse die state than VAM-4A yet the die crack in front of the date argues this? Is there really a VAM-4A? Edited by dave700x 03/07/2013 9:33 pm Report this Post to the Staff
oih82w8 Pillar of the Community United States 7840 Posts	Posted 03/08/2013 1:48 pm Hopefully these new microscope images may help; (188 with dash under second "8" of the date) (83 of date) (back of cap) (lip clash) (right of date stars) (left wreath "nose clash" from OBV) (left wreath "lips clash" from OBV) (right wreath clash) (mintmark) Edited by oih82w8 03/08/2013 1:52 pm Report this Post to the Staff
SsuperDdave Moderator United States 23522 Posts	Posted 03/08/2013 2:04 pm VAM-8. As near as I can tell, it devolves down to mint mark location and orientation. The second C, dropped and rotated, means V8 and if you can see the n next to the neck, call it 8A. This die doesn't look like the crack progressed much during its' lifetime, which is not uncommon. It probably cracked early and didn't get much worse over use. Keep in mind, it's quite possible that everything we see of V4 and V8 was struck over the course of 48 hours; such was the life of a Morgan die. Report this Post to the Staff
oih82w8 Pillar of the Community United States 7840 Posts	Posted 03/08/2013 2:10 pm I knew that I forgot an image: Quote: if you can see the n next to the neck, call it 8A I will try again tonight! Thanks! Taking images of a "Proof-Like" is rough, but I think that this is the "N" that is depicted in Vamworld. Edited by oih82w8 03/09/2013 07:09 am Report this Post to the Staff
dave700x Rest in Peace United States 10625 Posts	Posted 03/09/2013 07:23 am Very nice. Report this Post to the Staff
SsuperDdave Moderator United States 23522 Posts	Posted 03/09/2013 12:43 pm Quote: Taking images of a "Proof-Like" is rough, but I think that this is the "N" that is depicted in Vamworld. Ding. Report this Post to the Staff
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