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Requesting VAM I/D For Two 1878-CC Morgans

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Broken-Coin's Avatar
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 Posted 03/01/2013  5:17 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Broken-Coin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Last year when I submitted some 2 dozen Morgan dollars to ANACS, my budget did not allow the additional fees required for VAM identification.

In hindsight I am now thinking I may have some type of VAM variety that may have a added premium above its non-variety counterpart.

Below are 2 ANACS certified 1878cc Morgan's, graded MS-62 and VF25, and need some help here as I could not find a exact match on Vamworld, and others may have the same type of varieties in their collection.

Let me start off with my self education on VAMs started when I first learned about Silver Dollar Varieties in 1998 and was offered a trade of my Overton catalog of Bust Half Dollars for a 1991 ~ 4th edition VAM catalog.

After locating die varieties not listed in the VAM catalog, I was advised to contact someone named (if memory serves) "Ash", and in doing so, was advised that not all varieties make it into the catalog and chose die varieties of interest.

Last year members in this forum helped me out with my sister's late husband's Morgans, and both coins here are from that lot.

It has been about 13 years since my contact with Ash and don't remember how contact was made, and since then numerous die varieties have been listed as VAM varieties of interest, and thought I would post both coins in question here as they may have been struck with the same obverse die, but the reverses are from different dies.

The MS62 obverse shows the tip of the 4th star missing (that seems to be popular) and the VF-25 shows the same type of star tip missing, along with a small Cud (extra metal) on the 1st "8" that may have been caused by a long die life. On the MS62 reverse, I notice a short nock variety with die scratches under the 6th T/F, a clearer, wider "c c" and what looks like pitting from a rusted die in the "IGWT" area and the bottom of the "O" of "OF" is deformed. [ I posted a photo of a 1921 pitted Morgan from Vamworld for comparison of what a rusted die strike looks like].

Below the 1921 pitted reverse photo are photos of
what I believe are the same rusted die strikes. The last 2 photos show both "cc" mint marks as the VF25 looks more like "oo" instead of "cc" and someone can advise me the different types (small, med., large) both coins are. Besides the [oo] looking mint mark on the VF25 reverse, it is a long nock variety..

High resolution photos are available for further study if needed.

Please advise if you believe it is worth the additional cost to return either coin back to ANACS for variety designation.

THANKS

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

[1921 pitting from rusted die - for comparison only]

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

[1878cc pitted reverse area]
Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

[deformed "O"]

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Note; The white arc's are reflections of the LED lighting I made to fit over my camera lense for photos that I need to zoom in. Most the photos were taken at night with no other lighting, only the LEDs on the camera.

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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 03/01/2013  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Long Nock is VAM-4; those closed C's are characteristic of it.

The MS62 is a bit tougher based on the given information. I think what you see around IGWT is Die Deterioration rather than pitting - it;s not uncommon from older Morgan dies. Have a look at the eagle's right (viewer's left) wing at the bottom, and let me know if you see something interesting.
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 Posted 03/06/2013  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Broken-Coin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ SsuperDdave

With all my years of collecting, buying and selling coins, whatever is under the eagles right wing is well above my pay-grade.

I found that if I rotate the coin 90º CCW the image seems to look clearer, and below are 3 photos with the last two of the three zoomed in from the first photo.

Maybe this will help ID what it is...

Thanks


Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans

Requesting-VAM-I/D-For-Two-1878-CC-Morgans
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 03/06/2013  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was hoping against hope that you'd see a prominent Z-shaped set of die gouges on the eagle's wing for VAM-11; that would nail the attribution as well as netting you a very interesting variety. OK. Look for a pretty decent-sized lump on the first S of STATES, or a vertical die gouge just below Liberty's lip. If you see neither of those (each characteristic of a specific VAM), I think we can call it VAM-28. The VAMworld detail page for 28 only shows the E in ONE, because there's a curved die scratch through it noted on *some* specimens. I also see a straight die scratch intersecting the E, similar to the neat scratches below the tailfeathers noted in your first set of pics. Have a look at your coin for that straight scratch; it'll run from the denticle directly under the right stand of the N, to about 2/3 of the way up the left side of the E.
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 Posted 03/08/2013  1:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Broken-Coin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SsuperDdave

I have just completed uploading numerous photos of the die scratches on the reverse on photobucket and with the number of photos, will be posting a 2nd part of this thread on a (part2) second thread sometime tonight and will post the link below...

With the amount of die scratches, I believe this reverse die was cleaned with a wire brush.

The additional photos may answer my question on the pitting around "IGWT"...
Edited by Broken-Coin
03/08/2013 1:50 pm
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 Posted 03/10/2013  10:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Broken-Coin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just posted Part #2 on a seperate thread of the die scratches on the reverse at;

https://goccf.com/t/144387
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