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A Multi-Struck Spanish Test Piece

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BillSnyder's Avatar
778 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2013  12:33 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

Here is what I believe is a test piece for one of the Spanish 17th century revaluation counterstamps -

A-Multi-Struck-Spanish-Test-Piece


It is discussed in the following .DOC file (page 3) which, as you see, is in Spanish -

http://d.pr/f/Cphk

I can make out some of this file. Any complete translation would be most welcome.


Bill
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rachums107's Avatar
United States
3345 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2013  12:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rachums107 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow thats really cool. Cant wait to here some input on it. Where did you get it?
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BillSnyder's Avatar
778 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2013  1:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

It came from a west Coast auction, maybe 15 years ago.
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2013  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's exactly what you said it is : it's a test coin for the counterstamps applied to devaluate the coin.
Mint is Madrid (MD), date 1641.
I'm looking for one like that - but had no luck so far :) (I have the regular counterstamp applied to a coin though, not the trials like that)
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2013  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I got a copper blank with repeated impressions from Richard Long about 10-12 years ago. Mine is a counterfeiters test blank.

I read the article on multiple resellos and I THINK (my Spanish is very rudimentary) it says that there are at present versions known with 3,4,5 and 8 repeats of the same stamp. They are scarce and there are a variety of reasons postulated. There are NO absolute conclusions.

I get confused about the descriptions used at some points about authorizations because the Spanish is strange (like old English I guess) it seems that multiple stamps could make the coin worth more than one stamp. Each application of a duplicate stamp added to the others? I had never heard of that before. They were cautious to say it did not apply to restamping previously stamped pieces to re-value them a second time. The newer stamp in that case is placed OVER the earlier stamp being done away with.

So they sorted out the examples that were underweight in terms of copper content and indicated they were probably forgeries - some of the period. Some of the exemplars were in collections in the late 17th century.

They also indicate that OVERLAPING identical punches are fakes. In the case of the multiple identical stamps there are not any underpunches present. There is a caution about the host coin being able to be identified. There is some suspicion that counterfeit multiple applicatiosnwere used to obscure the host to allow an illegal coin to pass.

The idea of a test blank used to train mint employees was advanced but no firm conclusions were made there either.

They also indicated that the stamps could not be crude and must meet mint standards - counterfeits both old and new were known to exist.

The total number of examples studied (all from major collections) was few in number and they are approaching these as a VERY rare class in total.

Your example looks great - old - the stamps do not overlap and they ared well done.

One final caution they had one example they think was fake by virtue of the date and mint combination used. Some date mint combinations were not made. But I did not pick up where you can find such a list of which dates were used.
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BillSnyder's Avatar
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 Posted 03/10/2013  3:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Thank you very much, Swamper Bob.

I am curious about the reference to counterfeit counterstamps. This was not mentioned at all (that I remember) in the excellent Numismatics International article "ABOUT THOSE COUNTERSTAMPS, SPANISH COPPER COINS AND THEIR COUNTERSTAMPS IN THE 17TH CENTURY", by Paul DeGroot.

As Mr. DeGroot's article says and shows, there were many different counterstamps applied over the years, as the value of Spanish copper money went down and up. Pieces are easily obtained, but I had not known that some out there are fakes.

(Anyone wanting more info on the NI article mentioned above might write me at billsnyder2000@gmail.com).


Thanks again,
Bill
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2013  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They apparently do exist as counterfeits both contemporary and modern - the reference is fairly clear in the article that they "could be". So there must be known copies.
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United States
1962 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2013  10:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting piece.. Wonder if the guy who runs maravedis.net/maravedis.org would have any insight?
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