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Kennedy 64 Proof Varieties And Estimated Mintages

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 1,616Next Topic  
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eSinger's Avatar
United States
523 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2013  6:15 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add eSinger to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
First I was not sure if another thread was needed but it is a different subject and question that I hope a Kennedy expert could answer.

Here is my issue, I have been trying to figure out some things on the Kennedy Proofs from 1964. I am learning a lot but there seems to be some holes that I am not sure of the facts.

The RedBook lists the mintage's as such..

1964  ........ 273,304,004
1964D ........ 156,205,446
1964 Proof ...   3,950,762

What I have gathered so far is that there were and estimated 100k of the Accented Hair variety (Type 1). These were the very first of the proofs issued. Then the transition to the (Type 2) after that.

(Getting some information from a very good book, A Guide Book to Franklin and Kennedy half dollars Tomaska)


It estimates that 30%-50% were melted in the 79/80 silver boom.

So I did not know much about these other than the ones I have found roll searching since I was 12. I managed to buy one that I thought very weird and beautiful,

Kennedy-64-Proof-Varieties-And-Estimated-Mintages

When I got it I was amazed at its condition and thought I had a special coin. After reading many posts here and elsewhere, I came to the conclusion that it was not that uncommon..

In the Half book it lists the varieties such as regular, Cameo, and Deep/Ultra Cameo.

So I went and bought a unopened 1964 Proof set and although it was in great shape it did not look like the one I had at all. Mine was mirrored. I have since bought another unopened 64 proof set and I see the same type of coin. Different than mine by far, again the mirror effect. What I got out of these two proof sets look almost identical,

Kennedy-64-Proof-Varieties-And-Estimated-Mintages


Kennedy-64-Proof-Varieties-And-Estimated-Mintages


There is nothing wrong with these other than they are not the mirrored coins that also have. Here are shots of two more that I have,

Kennedy-64-Proof-Varieties-And-Estimated-Mintages

Kennedy-64-Proof-Varieties-And-Estimated-Mintages

So the question is, how many of the mirrored types were made? There were mirrored examples of both Type 1 and Type 2. I am sure the grand majority of the proofs were of the un-mirrored type. They are not rare per se but would seem to be much rarer than the plain jane proofs. I know that the Cameo and Deep/Ultra Cameo have to come from the mirrored types.

I can find no information on these or estimated mintage's and such but I would hope that someone much more informed could give me an answer.

I don't mean to be a pain, I just have a need to know the answer and it is driving me nuts. I have five of these now and I just don't understand why there are not separately listed types between the plain jane and the mirrored ones.

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upstate's Avatar
United States
3278 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2013  7:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add upstate to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The common way to tell if a coin is proof is the mirror like surfaces, particularily the fields.
When the devices, that is the lettering, bust, eagle, whatever, stands out and is whiteish then you have Cameo.
Very whiteish is deep Cameo. Your 'mirror' coins are regular proof coins.
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eSinger's Avatar
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523 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2013  8:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eSinger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have regular proof coins and they are not mirrored like these are.
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solotime's Avatar
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2311 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2013  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add solotime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I got a few deep cam's, They much different.
I don't know the amount they made of them though.
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bpoc1's Avatar
United States
4078 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2013  05:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bpoc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Upstate, good information.
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eSinger's Avatar
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523 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2013  5:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eSinger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well I have answered my own question. Sort of. The biggest issue I had with my proofs was the mirror effect and not seeing it in the proof sets I had purchased.

For example: Here are both of them side by side..



Kennedy-64-Proof-Varieties-And-Estimated-Mintages

Notice the mirror with the one on the right. Notice the Satin look of the one on the left.

Here another shot (my camera skills need work):


Kennedy-64-Proof-Varieties-And-Estimated-Mintages

Same deal, obvious mirrored proof on the right, plain Jane on the left. That is until I cut open the proof set.

What I got was a shock to me. I was trying to describe the difference in words and I was not able to do so. So naturally I thought to put them side by side. Well, I now have my answer..



Kennedy-64-Proof-Varieties-And-Estimated-Mintages

It was the packaging all the time, my proof that I cut out looks just as goof if not better than the one I purchased before.

So all the Kennedy 64 Proofs are mirrored...

Go figure....


Anyhow thanks for all the advise and help. Now I know.....


Off to get me a good Cameo 64 Proof...at least within my budget.


Cheers!
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2013  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You discovered what I was about to tell you. LOL The packaging for the proof sets prior to the rigid plastic containers left a lot to be desired. The cellophane would haze as you have discovered. The other problem is that coins could shift around in that cello and get hairline scratches on them. Part of the reason it is hard to find 64 and older proof coins in grades above PF67. And when you do, you pay for them.

Yes, all proof coins have the mirror finish. That is what makes them a proof. The cameo and deep/ultra cameo is another thing. For proof coins after the mid 70's, the cameo thing is pretty much a given, and after 80 or so, anything not deep cameo is not acceptable. But prior to that time, these characteristics were NOT comman at all. The art of making proof coins was not at its height as it is now. So even though proof coins were the pinnacle of coin making, they were not as good as now.

Typically speaking, the cameo and deep cameo coins came from the new dies, within the first few thousand strikes or so. After that point, the coins all cam out completely mirrored. Still beautiful coins, but not as nice as they could be. This why you pay even more for the early cameo and deep cameo coins.

And I wish I had a pic handy of the packaging the proof sets came in up until 1955. Its a wonder any proof coins prior to 55 grade higher than PF65. But man I want them in that OGP. LOL
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2013  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here you go a 1954 set with box packing tissue and the coins.

Kennedy-64-Proof-Varieties-And-Estimated-Mintages
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2013  12:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Conder, thank you sir. As bad as the coins can be in those, I really want to get them. I have a complete run of proof sets from 55 up in OGP. Just need to get those early 50's versions now.
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