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This Coin From Ebay, 8 Reales Mexico 1769, Is Fake Or Not?

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 6,006Next Topic  
New Member
rdzyrdza's Avatar
Mexico
6 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2013  03:45 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add rdzyrdza to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi Community:

I'm a new member, and I see that here there are great experts on coins, I would like an opinion about this auction from ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEXICO-CARO...251197115870

This coin is fake or not? I think that is genuine, but don't like me the mark through the reverse side, maybe is a master dies broke, I don't know if this mark is common in this year date.

Thank you.

*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
New Member
rdzyrdza's Avatar
Mexico
6 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2013  04:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rdzyrdza to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


This-Coin-From-Ebay,-8-Reales-Mexico-1769,-Is-Fake-Or-Not?

This-Coin-From-Ebay,-8-Reales-Mexico-1769,-Is-Fake-Or-Not?
Pillar of the Community
wonghinghi's Avatar
Hong Kong
1270 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2013  11:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wonghinghi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't tell before seeing the edge of the coin.
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2013  03:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't like the way the crack looks on the pillar side, and the way the edge denticles looks as well ...
A die break shouldn't lead to extra metal flowing like that.
Swamperbob, am I correct ?
Valued Member
Airw0lf's Avatar
United States
178 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2013  2:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Airw0lf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm learning and comparing one of the sides just the easy visible details I found this... if I'm wrong please let me know... and like MathieuMa said the line across the coin for me is no right after zooming I see a bad casting, may be I'm wrong but like I said , I'm learning...

This-Coin-From-Ebay,-8-Reales-Mexico-1769,-Is-Fake-Or-Not? This-Coin-From-Ebay,-8-Reales-Mexico-1769,-Is-Fake-Or-Not?
Edited by Airw0lf
04/01/2013 2:57 pm
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2013  11:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was hoping to see the edge as well before commenting but here goes.

The crack in this case could be an early state die split in which the entire die breaks at once right across the face. On the coin this of course shows as raised metal. The metal flows into the crack - usually widening it progressively with each strike. Like a root splitting a rock. When it happens the die become useless VERY quickly so hundreds of copies that are identical is an impossibility.

I am slightly bothered by the fact that the die split is not visible on the left globe and seems to be smoothed out somewhat over the right globe. That would be a great feature to look at using a high power binocular microscope.

I tried to enlarge the pictures to see the details of the split as they show on the coin. The pictures are a bit too fuzzy to be sure of anything. There are two areas of the that cause me to question the nature of the die material.

The first area is the split over the mint mark on the left side of the date. There appears to be a double row on raised dashes as if there was a partial infilling of two parallel cracks. Such a bifurcated crack can happen in a steel failure but I am looking for something that should also have happened in that case. I would normally examine at 300X or higher power.

The second area is at the other end of the split in the first change of direction about 2 1/2 mm to the right of the right pillar. I would also examine the crack where it passes the lower serif of the M in VNUM and the rosette. In both cases the metal extruding points to small die chips breaking away. The shapes of these chips and they way they broke away can be very informative. The location near the M is the most suspicious of the sites.

So my opinion right now is that the coin is suspicious. It has quite clearly been cleaned and original surfaces are unlikely to be present.

I also noticed what may be a trace of a hangar being removed at top center. On the obverse it is possible that the E at the top was partially covered. On the reverse at the same position there is some mechanical damage to the rim. If the coin was at one time used as a pendant that would account for the loss of the original surfaces and might point to the coin being an original. On the flip side of that theory would be the requirement that a defective coin (split die strike) was mounted. When these were used as jewelry - it would seem that they would use a nicer example to begin with.

If edge photos and blow-ups (clear) of the areas in question can be provided by the owner I would be very happy to review and/or revise my opinion.
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2013  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just checked the seller - read his 9 recent negatives - especially the one where he won an ebay case over a coin that was damaged "by the buyer" and then he KEPT the coin and the refund of almost $600 and the other ones where he sent poorly packed coins. Judge that case for yourself. I side with the buyer.

In total - what I see here is one of those coin dealers that give the hobby a BLACK EYE.

He calls this coin AU+ with "luster" who is that guy kidding. The coin is fully cleaned and has ZERO luster - it is also DAMAGED at the rim and would never grade.

DO NOT BID.

Also based on the comments he gets - don't hold your breath for better pictures.
New Member
rdzyrdza's Avatar
Mexico
6 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2013  01:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rdzyrdza to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, your opinions are very important to me. I can see thinks that I don't saw before. I don't bid.
thank you very much
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