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 Replies: 35 / Views: 4,484 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5850 Posts |
My understanding of how ASEs are sold has always been that the mint sells them at (or slightly above) spot to a limited number of authorized resellers who then add their own markup before passing them along to the regular dealers. In the past, for example, I have been able to get them for as low as $2.49 over spot from Goldmart who simply placed an order with an authorized reseller and had them drop shipped directly to me. Assuming all that is accurate, what is going on with ASEs since spot prices have dropped? None of the regular dealers seem to have them available for immediate delivery and the premiums have skyrocketed. APMEX, for example, is selling some for $6.99-8.99 over spot, which seems downright unconscionable to me. Has the Mint suddenly stopped production (or is unable to keep up with increased demand)? Has the Mint raised the premiums they charge to the authorized resellers? Are the authorized resellers just gouging the dealers because they can? Are the dealers just gouging the customers because they can? All of the above? I understand that when we are dealing with limited mintage specialty items or older coins that dealers need to first acquire before being able to sell them, premiums will increase as supplies dry up and/or dealers need to recoup their investment costs. But I thought ASEs were produced my the Mint in vast quantities and that the dealers ordered them as needed instead of buying them in advance. Or, to put it in a nutshell, how can APMEX state that shipments of ASEs are delayed (presumably until they can get more in stock) and still have the gall to add a $8 premium to them? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
Price-fixing is illegal and unethical. I hope it has something to do with supply, or simply that the mints bought their stock at way above the current price and are just waiting for the prices to go up to "normal" again, meanwhile creating an illusion of less supply to go around.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
Dealers are marking up coins because know they can play the other side of the market, that is marking up coins because the panic buyers think prices are going to leave them behind.
Friends, do me a favor and dont be a bag holder. I would feel sad and disappointed, to know that some of you fall into the trap of thinking that the markets are going to rebound, leaving you behind.
I do feel terrible, knowing that dealers are RIGHT NOW jeering and snickering behind the scenes, as people panic over falling prices and rush to buy,,, thats so sad :(
again please, dont turn into bag holders
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5850 Posts |
Quote:
do me a favor and dont be a bag holder Sorry, are you still talking about GLD and SLV? If so, I'm strictly talking about physical PMs right now and have no idea how to "sell short." Silver is up $1.10 so far today, btw. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5850 Posts |
Never mind, I found your previous statement in another thread: Quote:
OH I think I may have confused many of you when I say sell in this case.
I am saying sell, in this case, as in selling short silver. I am not saying to take your coins and dump them,, you do that when the prices are going wild and you can sense the frenzy. As we say, sell when you can, NOT when you have too.
But yes, the game now, is to sell silver, as in SELL IT SHORT,, and watch it come down until the market decides it has had enough of selling. Sell short futures contracts, ETFs, silver mining companies, you name it.. and this also applies to gold. In order to prevent further confusion, I would ask that you not clutter threads that are talking about buying and selling physical PM with your feelings toward SLV and GLD. One of these days, somebody will take you literally and end up dumping all his or her physical silver so as to nt be left "holding the bag" when that's not what you actually mean. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
@yup  with barry, you have your own speculation thread to spout off in, please let the rest of us collect coins. It is all a matter of supply chain economics. Why do gas prices take two days to skyrocket on bad economic news, but two weeks to come down on good news. Resellers need to stay in business during depressed prices as well as during high prices. The Mint does not immediately adjust bullion prices according to spot. If a reseller buys high they have to sell high until their stock dwindles. If they buy at a lower price and spot rockets, it is their opportunity to profit. I don't think resellers are regulated by the mint, they are regulated by the market. As far a rationing goes, the Mint has said they are having trouble getting a sufficient supply of planchets from their suppliers, but they have stopped short of attributing it to a silver shortage. Like any other business , resellers will sell as high as the market will bear. You shop for the lowest gas prices, it is time to let resellers know we are going to shop for the lowest bullion prices. Edited by denco7
04/25/2013 4:27 pm
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Valued Member
Ireland
131 Posts |
I assume the mint would have bought silver at a higher cost than current spot price so would presume that would be a factor in how much they price ASE's to authorised resellers. I don't think those resellers are allowed to gouge with their mark-up but don't know that for sure I just foggily recall hearing that somewhere some time ago. As for the regular dealers they can sell at whatever pricepoint they like I'd guess but a healthy competitive market where regular cashflow is all important to participants should negate any real gouging there too (unless of course there was collusion which is unlikely imo as I'm sure that would likely be breaking some sort of law). Sharp drops in prices such as the recent one often see a lag in the 'retail' price coming down, presumably the US Mint has silver stocks which were bought at a higher price point and as such prices to the authorised resellers won't drop until such time as that stock is replenished at closer to current spot levels. As for 'yup' ... I agree, most that visit this forum would likely be well conversant with your negativity toward fictional gold/silver at the moment, no need to pollute other threads with it. Norm |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2019 Posts |
SGB has been having a hard time keeping ASEs in stock and sunshines.
Tube of 20 x 1oz Sunshine Mint Silver Rounds
Sorry, we're looking for more stock!
Tube of 20 x 1oz 2013 American Eagle Silver Coins
Sorry, we're looking for more stock!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1200 Posts |
I bought some ASEs 5 weeks ago. Comparing the premiums and per coin cost (using the same source)...
Cost per coin now = $29.71 .... Premium now = $5.29
Cost per coin then = $31.35 ... Premium then = $2.59
Right now, the coin costs me $1.64 less, the vendor is raking in over double the margin and my expected delivery date is somewhere out in the ozone.
There's only one winner in this situation (not me). I'm also expected to trust in and feel OK about delivery at some unknown future date. I don't think so.
Until the present "availability issues" (ha,ha) are history, I'm only buying what (if any) PMs I can get with a vendor-guaranteed shipping date time frame.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
What I sense is denial over the drop in prices. That is why some of you are upset. I am not ashamed of believing firmly in what I see, which is a downtrend in silver and gold until. The futures market is what matters, not what your local coin shop sells at or any online dealer. Those who do not believe the futures market as the bench mark, are in the minority.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5850 Posts |
Quote:
What I sense is denial over the drop in prices. That is why some of you are upset . Do you even bother reading what a thread is about before deciding to repeat your message? Nobody is in denial that the prices have dropped. In fact, I would be thrilled about it if only I could find some silver to buy at these prices without huge premiums tacked on. And if prices go further down, I hope to buy even more down the road because I am in it for the long haul and know nothing about the "selling short" GLD and SLV that you keep blathering on about. Yes, we all now know that you advocate selling short SLV and GLD. We get that, really. And you may very well be right. But that's not what is being discussed here. If you actually think now is the time for long-term stackers to sell off physical assets in bulk, then please just come out and say so and we can have a meaningful discussion on the topic. If not, however, please keep to your own thread. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1200 Posts |
"What I sense is denial over the drop in prices."
---Absolutely right. The vendor I cited above is clearly in deep, deep denial.
"That is why some of you are upset."
---You got that right too. Twice the margin for a non-deliverable product is definitely one of the causes of my being upset.
"I am not ashamed of believing firmly in what I see, which is a downtrend in silver and gold..."
---I don't know anybody who is ashamed of believing firmly in what they see and nor do I know anybody who is unaware of the downturn in gold and silver.
"The futures market is what matters, not what your local coin shop sells at or any online dealer."
---This may or may not be, but now you're starting to sound like one of those TV evangelists. In addition, I buy physical PM's from online dealers and my
LCS so it's pretty arguable when you say they don't matter. I think anybody I give my money to matters (to at least that degree).
"Those who do not believe the futures market as the bench mark, are in the minority."
---This too may or may not be, but now you're really starting to sound like a television evangelist.
Not everybody is going to be joining The First Church Of The Wholly Holy Futures Market. I suspect far more players (both traders and investors) have lost their kiesters
through futures market speculation than backwards thinkers have lost theirs by buying physical PMs at their LCS (quaint, antiquated and laughable though that may be).
That all now having been said, I'm now out of here. I will not be coming back to debate the wholly holy litany of The First Church Of The Wholly Holy Futures Market or to
be a party to hijacking this thread off onto that tangent. What should be done to address that debate is starting off a separate thread on that subject and then taking as
long as pleases the participants to beat that poor old horse to and beyond death. Sayonara.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:Or, to put it in a nutshell, how can APMEX state that shipments of ASEs are delayed (presumably until they can get more in stock) and still have the gall to add a $8 premium to them? Because they can plain and simple. The fear mongererors are out there throwing gas on every fire they possibly can and people are seeing what they want to see instead of dealing in facts. They arent going to come out and say for everyone to calm down, theyre in the business of making money and will keep doing so as long as they can. Any large price movement creates panic buying frenzies. Artificial shortages are being created to charge those premiums so that they dont lose money on what they had in stock, mints are busy making other products and arent going to drop everything for low money bullion coins ect. Theres no shortage of silver in the world of massive conspiracy going on its simple the market at work. Its the equivalent of not being able to find toilet paper because they predicted snow. |
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Valued Member
Ireland
131 Posts |
Quote:
What I sense is denial over the drop in prices. That is why some of you are upset. What I sense is an overinflated ego that is incapable of listening to others. Norm |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
@yup You have upset Fat Freddy and quite a few other members with your preaching about the futures markets. This is a COIN forum and not some Wall St boardroom. Most of the Guys here simply collect bullion and bullion coinage because they enjoy doing it and feel that it is a better way of saving a few quid than putting the money in a bank that charges more for the account than it pays in interest. These guys put their money where their mouth is and you put your mouth where their money is and nibble away at it doing your futures betting. What part of "We don't need/want your opinions" don't you understand Mate  I personally only have a few kilo's of silver, But it is silver I can touch and see. The price WILL go up and down all the time (Mainly due to the futures traders)and this is just fine with me  In the long run I will still have my stash and it will still have value when I need it. I don't know about "Shorts" mate but winter does come eventually and it can be mighty cold being caught in a storm with only shorts to cover yer bum   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1285 Posts |
Barryg, FWIW, my understanding from speaking to a local LCS is that most folks are in the same situation as he is in. Most of the inventory purchases were bought in the 27 to 29 area, with a cost basis around 30 to 33 depending on how big or small the dealers were. He wants around 33/34 as of yesterday per ASE. But when I asked him how much he would buy at...he said around 25 per ASE. |
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Replies: 35 / Views: 4,484 |
Posted 04/25/2013 3:46 pm
