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ATB 5 Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coin Question

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mmissinglink's Avatar
85 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2013  11:04 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mmissinglink to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Three questions actually:

On the product page ( http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wc...ory_rn=48501 ) is listed:

Mintage Limit: 25,000
Product Limit: None
Household Order Limit: None


Q 1) What is the difference between Mintage Limit and Product Limit?

Q 2) Is there a (official) date when orders for each of these coins will cease? How is it that last year the mintage limit was also stated by the US Mint product catalogue to be 25.000 for each coin but all SOLD OUT at less than 25,000 each sold? http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs...intageTotals

Q 3) On the same page as noted above, a few nights ago when I checked this page, the US Mint noted that the sales for the unreleased 2013 White Mountain National Forest is 12,700. What does that mean?
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BH1964's Avatar
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 Posted 05/16/2013  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They way I understand it:

Mintage Limit: Maximum that can be minted.
Product Limit: Maximum that can be ordered.
Household Order Limit: Maximum that can be ordered per household.
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solotime's Avatar
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 Posted 05/16/2013  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add solotime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mintage is for how many they could only strike. Product I'm not sure of.

Household order limit is for how many that house can order. ( I know you didn't ask but just making myself clear)

BH1964 beat me to it.
Edited by solotime
05/16/2013 11:10 pm
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mmissinglink's Avatar
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 Posted 05/16/2013  11:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mmissinglink to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, but shouldn't the max that can be ordered be the same as max that can be minted? And what about these questions....

Q 2) Is there a (official) date when orders for each of these coins will cease? How is it that last year the mintage limit was also stated by the US Mint product catalogue to be 25.000 for each coin but all SOLD OUT at less than 25,000 each sold? http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs...intageTotals

Q 3) On the same page as noted above, a few nights ago when I checked this page, the US Mint noted that the sales for the unreleased 2013 White Mountain National Forest is 12,700. What does that mean?
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solotime's Avatar
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 Posted 05/16/2013  11:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add solotime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm pretty sure they can't buy more then 25k. If you do they must just give the extra money back.

Qustion number 2, , I believe the mint kept some of them. Not sure if they still doing that, but I remember reading something long ago that they keep some coins. Also I think the numbers they have on their site isn't 100% right.

Question number 3, not sure.

I really don't use the mints website. So hopefully someone with better understanding will nail your questions.
Edited by solotime
05/16/2013 11:37 pm
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2013  01:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Q 2) Is there a (official) date when orders for each of these coins will cease? How is it that last year the mintage limit was also stated by the US Mint product catalogue to be 25.000 for each coin but all SOLD OUT at less than 25,000 each sold? http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs...intageTotals


They have some leeway for when they can cut off sales. They just have to keep them on sale until sold out or for the year, but they dont have to just let them stay on sale for all of the next year like theyve done in the past.


Quote:
Q 3) On the same page as noted above, a few nights ago when I checked this page, the US Mint noted that the sales for the unreleased 2013 White Mountain National Forest is 12,700. What does that mean?


Thats how many of the bullion ones that have been sold so far.
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Bizybackson's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2013  04:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bizybackson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a confusing series for alot of casual collectors because while the information is out there, it's scattered and piecemeal, there isn't so far, one place to go to (yet) for complete information on the 5oz. coins. Part of the problem is the Mint, they were unprepared for the wording in the legislation regarding the oversized bullion. They also haven't figured out a way to market successfully either the bullion coin or the collector product to the appropriate audiences for each. Bullion stackers also have shunned the series somewhat, the bullion is hard to find, and if low mintage, comes with a hefty premium over spot, and 5oz. rounds have never been made in a 3" size, so they can be hard to store as well. All this makes for a desirable collectible for those in the know.
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Doug58s's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2013  07:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doug58s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think Product Limit comes into play on these coins. The Mintage Limit defines the number of coins total that will be sold unless the mint decides to cease production before that number is reached.

Product Limits are usually set when you see a collection - and this coin is included in that collection. To see that you'd need to go look at the Gold coins where they will Mint so many total coins (Mintage Limit) and then offer individual coins (Product Limits). You'll see the Mintage Limit is higher because they will mint more of the coins to be included in the sets - but the individual Product Limits are different. Here is the mint information for the 1/4 ounce Gold coin.

Mintage Limit: 30,000
Product Limit: 10,000

What that means is the 1/4 ounce coin - alone - will have 10,000 coins possibly purchased - and 30,000 total produced. (the other 20,000 reserved for the 4 coin proof set in this case)
Edited by Doug58s
05/17/2013 07:40 am
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mmissinglink's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2013  08:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mmissinglink to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to all who responded.

Doug, in particular, thank you for that very clarifying response.



Have all the collector coins in this series from 2010-2012 been sold out to the limit of 25,000 each? Or had the US Mint stopped production on any of the collector coins in this series before the 25,000 was met?
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Doug58s's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2013  09:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doug58s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
America the Beautiful 5 Oz. Silver Coins

2010-P Hot Springs National Park Silver Coins 27,000 27,000 - - Sold Out
2010-P Yellowstone National Park Silver Coins 27,000 27,000 - - Sold Out
2010-P Yosemite National Park Silver Coins 27,000 27,000 - - Sold Out
2010-P Grand Canyon National Park Silver Coins 26,019 26,019 - - Sold Out
2010-P Mount Hood National Park Silver Coins 26,928 26,928 - - Sold Out
2011-P Gettysburg National Park Silver Coin 24,625 24,625 - - Sold Out
2011-P Glacier National Park Silver Coin 20,856 20,856 - - Sold Out
2011-P Olympic National Park Silver Coin 18,398 18,398 - - Sold Out
2011-P Vicksburg National Park Silver Coin 18,594 18,594 - - Sold Out
2011-P Chickasaw National Park Silver Coin 16,827 16,827 - - Sold Out
2012-P El Yunque National Park Silver Coin 17,314 17,314 - - Sold Out
2012-P Chaco Culture National Park Silver Coin 17,146 17,146 Sold Out
2012-P Acadia National Park Silver Coin 14,978 14,978 - - Sold Out
2012-P Hawaii Volcanoes National Park Silver Coin 14,863 14,863 - - Sold Out
2012-P Denali National Park Silver Coin 15,225 15,225 - - Sold Out
Edited by Doug58s
05/17/2013 09:19 am
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mmissinglink's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2013  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mmissinglink to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow...you are the man Doug. Where's that info from Doug (source please)?
Valued Member
mmissinglink's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2013  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mmissinglink to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why does the US Mint not mint to the full 25,000 limit for each coin? With this series, I have always ordered on day 1 of sale by US Mint. If I have to pay the shipping fee 5 times a year just for it, I'm okay by that. I actually like these coins a whole lot and am looking forward to finishing the full collection in 20XX whatever year that may be.

I saw a dealer selling a really nice wooden collector display cases for this series of coins (the bullions). If only I could afford to buy the bullions of this series alongside of the collector version then it would make sense for me to buy those wooden display cases.
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2013  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They just didnt sell so they ended them and moved on as opposed to leaving them on the website all year until they did. Some of it could also be returns where someone didnt want a replacement
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Doug58s's Avatar
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899 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2013  1:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doug58s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
link - I went to the Coinnews.net website and actually was looking at mint numbers when you posted.

The production numbers are estimates based on demand. On several of the offerings there just wasn't enough demand to justify keeping them up for sale. (IMO)

I am actually buying these now - since the price dropped below $200 - and after I got my first I agree they are quite the coin. I think the 25,000 will probably start to sell out more regularly at this price... (again my opinion).
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Elmo's Avatar
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84 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2013  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Elmo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I got lulled into thinking the 2012's would be on sale into 2013 like they did with the 2011.

Joke was on me, got to Acadia and I paused to pay bills, Xmas shopping, heating fuel, etc. Then I find out Volcanoes and Denali are gone.

This year, I am not taking the chance again and subscribed. If I find a good price one on e-auction, I might just leave it sealed and store it. The quality of my White Mountain is horrible.

Is it possible some millionaire just decides to buy the remaining lot to drive demand?
I would hope the mint has SOME limits.

BTW, the Oracle of Omaha, joked about those seeking gold and said "you just run into a cave with it" comparing it to equities. That SOB only became famous by cornering the silver market to drive demand (avec prices) sky high. I see it alot, only in the market they call it "pump and dump".
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CelticKnot's Avatar
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12817 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2013  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've gotten one of every uncirculated ATB puck releases thus far and it's been interesting (if not a bit frustrating) to see Ag go up and down so wildly. nearly $50/oz for Hot Springs and now we're hovering around $21.50.

woof.

It's always difficult to drop money on an expensive coin when there are bills to pay, gifts to buy, etc. But in my experience it's worse to buy them all later, even if you can find them cheaper than retail.

@Elmo: "Oracle of Omaha"...hahaha love it!
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