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 Replies: 17 / Views: 2,482 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
500 Posts |
So two things bring this topic to mind. One being my post that led to a renege on a price by a website. The other being that I got an email ( as I have ebay send me them on new listings for certain coins I'm on the lookout for ) where a dealer made what I consider an obvious mistake on the BIN price. He had a bunch of MS62 new listings and one MS64 and a few MS63s. Well he obviously messed up the MS64 and listed it at the same price as all the 62s he listed - and less than the 63s. I clicked on the ad to see if it was really a 64 and it had already ended as "SOLD". So are these dealers "bound" to honor the selling price even if it is a mistake rather than a "bargain sale"? In some fields of sale, such type-os or mistakes are common and the sellers all use a "standard out clause" which states they will not honor obvious type-os on pricing etc. Obviously the size of the mistake matters. Some said the Walker I posted should have been honored because the difference was $32 and that wasn't worth the bad PR/PUB of reneging. In this other case it was probably more like a $400-$600 difference and I can't see making the seller eat that over a "copy and paste" mistake. Where is the line though? I personally wouldn't intentionally try to take advantage of an obvious mistake like the 2nd example. The first though I had gotten a couple good deals before at that site so I didn't think it a mistake. I get a bit "irked" by those who brag about deals where they CLEARLY took advantage of a newbie or someone else by paying way under melt for coins they knew to be worth considerably more - for instance. Where is that ethical line? |
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New Member
United States
23 Posts |
I've been in physical stores where the pricetag on an item was clearly wrong. (ie. $2.39 instead of $239.00)
I've ran into two answers:
1. If management is involved, they will not honor the price recognizing the significant loss.
2. If management is not involved and the clerk has no personal stake in the store, consider it sold with a chuckle.
Online services have only one thing to consider: Is the loss worth the negative feedback, which will penalize them on fees for the next few months. I'm sure there is some cutoff point, but it is likely different for each seller.
For me, just selling the occasional item, getting that $32 and providing a rebuttal to the negative feedback is okay. My fees are negligble.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
The larger mistake the more obvious it was a mistake and the more leeway I personally give sellers. To me theres a lot of factors involved. I give more leeway for an ebay listing since you could make a mistake and have it sell right away there before you catch it. The longer the mistakes been there the less its a mistake. What kind of mistake was it? Was it a 0 left off or the decimal in the wrong spot, simple things of that nature or something else. In the case of your walker the listed price and what he then wanted had nothing in common what so ever with the price they wanted. Finally how much will the mistake cost. Small mistakes like yours should be honored. As mistakes get bigger thats where the grey area starts. Big mistakes I dont hold against sellers for not honoring. If itd cost them a lot of money its completely understandable not to honor that. Of course a lot of the grey area can be avoided by sellers just letting buyers know what happened and see if they can come to something that works for both of them instead of refusing to honor it or demand a coin ect |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
500 Posts |
I was once told that mistakes in ads are legally binding, in the context of a grocery store running an ad for bacon that says $5 but no quantity and that legally you could empty their shelf and only pay $5. I think that ridiculous but I do wonder what the laws dictate. Like if a company sends you something you didn't order you can supposedly keep it.
Or if the grocery store mis-labels something are they bound to honor it. I once found a chuckroast labelled like 32 cents. I pointed it out to the manager and he fixed it. But what I think happened is an employee INTENTIONALLY marked it low and their wife was going to come by and pick it up in the case and get a "bargain" - it was buried under legit priced ones. Some mistakes are not so innocent!
I'm not into cheating people, or being cheated, but it is a bit weird in the coin community as some legitimately sell some items at bargain prices and others try to gouge the newbies and couch it in this "whatever someone will pay"/suckers-deserve-it attitude.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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I'm not into cheating people, or being cheated, but it is a bit weird in the coin community as some legitimately sell some items at bargain prices and others try to gouge the newbies and couch it in this "whatever someone will pay"/suckers-deserve-it attitude. I dont see that as anything unique to the Coin World it is just amplified because of the amount of individuals that sell things. Youll see that in anything that has individuals privately selling items that they may or may not know anything about them. Pawn shops do that every day on all sorts of items. ebay has been a bit of an equalizer for private sellers since a quick search will tell you what most things goes for, though you cant sell everything there. You see this a lot with firearms too since you can really only sell them to stores. If you take the same gun to 5 different stores youll get a wide range of prices. Some will offer you the best they can and still make money, others offer a reasonable price, but theres always some stores that low ball you badly knowing you have to sell to a store and some people will take those offers |
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Valued Member
United States
108 Posts |
You ask the question as an ethical question rather than a legal one. Yet, you ask if the seller is "bound" to honor the sale. Since ethics are subjective to each individual's worldview, an answer either way would be plausibly correct (and therefore "ethical").
Ethics in business is a two way street. Ethics in any business transaction does not fall to only one party. Both parties are equally expected to act in an ethical manner. One part of business ethics is fairness. This "fairness" should be expected of all parties involved in the transaction.
The question should not be whether or not the seller should be "bound" to the transaction, but rather was the transaction ethical to begin with. In other words, did both parties act in all fairness in the transaction, regardless of any errors and omissions.
Ethically speaking, should a seller make concession when an E&O occurs? Likewise, should a buyer submit to such concessions? Should the buyer have the ethical responsibility to question the seller on any portion of the transaction that appears to be unconscionable? Should a contract be allowed to be grossly weighted to one side or the other? What if the E&O was of no fault to either party involved? (ie technical issues, data corruption, etc)
The basis of business ethics is fairness. There are unethical buyers just as there are unethical sellers. A balance in the overall transaction is what makes the transaction ethical. A grossly unbalanced contract can be termed as "unconscionable".
Now, this is where ethical and legal begin to mix, so I'll leave it at that.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
624 Posts |
The situation with the PCGS MS-65 1946D Liberty Walking Half ($32) mistake was really an issue on two fronts. Bob Paul Rare Coins made a couple of different decisions. First, they decided not to honor the sale price ($68) after the sale. Secondly, they said they would only honor the sale if I paid an additional $32. From a legal standpoint, I think I had a firm footing to demand they they completed the order at the original price. They were very firm on their decision to either get $32 dollars more, or to return the sale price. I didn't demand a completion to the transaction, because I honored their explaination that this was an honest mistake. As it turns out, that is a very plausable excuse. The coin got re-listed (for $110) and had the wrong TPG and description in the write-up. If they were going to get something right, you know it would have been on the re-list for a coin they'd already screwed-up with...?! The fact they didn't speaks volumes about their propencity to make mistakes. From an ethical standpoint, Bob Paul Rare Coins didn't do anything 'wrong'. I would suggest that as a business (that should rely on credibility) they made a mistake by not honoring their error. The mistake can be measured in both credibility (intangible) and lost reveue (tangible). They lost both credibility and additional business... because of Buffalos thread, the story played out to several other collectors who were interested in the stuff they had on their site. Because of the experience, I didn't spend $300 more on a couple of nice coins they had it listed and several others said they wouldn't do business with them. Edited by BamaBlue
05/30/2013 6:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3167 Posts |
Isn't that why they put something like...
"Not responsible for any typographical errors"
...on all of the ads you see now?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
561 Posts |
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You see this a lot with firearms too since you can really only sell them to stores Must suck to live where you live. In Ohio and many other states you can sell a firearm to anyone who is legally allowed to own one. There are even websites dedicated to facilitating the private transfer of firearms. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
561 Posts |
As for the ebay auction, a Buy-It-Now listing would be considered an "offer" and a bidder buying it would be considered "acceptance". Once paid for, the payment would be the "consideration" and wham-o you have what any court would consider a legally binding contract. Now, what really happens is a whole different story. Back when silver was close to $40/oz. I saw an average circulated Franklin half listed for $8.00 BIN with free shipping and snapped it up. The seller sent a note with the coin indicating that he had made an error on the listing and congratulated me on the great catch and good deal. I know it isn't the same as a few hundred dollar error but in my opinion if you can't be more careful with your listings you deserve to lose money. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
624 Posts |
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Isn't that why they put something like... "Not responsible for any typographical errors" This is different for a couple of reasons. First, when a company takes-out an ad with a newspaper, they are saying they're not accountable if the newspaper makes a 'typographical' error. Secondly, if an advertisement has a mistake from the source of the ad, they are protected, because they made an offer to sell, but announce they will not complete the transaction in the event of a mistake. So, the advertisement is merely an 'intent' to sell, not a commitment to sell. When a seller has their own website, they are responsible for the content. They have an offer on the item that constitutes their intent to sell with a purchase button as confirmation of transaction by the buyer. When you select and pay for an item (e.g., transaction through PayPal), the transaction is completed. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
561 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3167 Posts |
So if the same were to happen on say BestBuy.ca, then they would be obligated to sell you the item at the listed price?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
561 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
624 Posts |
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So if the same were to happen on say BestBuy.ca, then they would be obligated to sell you the item at the listed price?
Legally... (I'm not a lawyer) I believe yes. Ethically, they might be able to 'weasel' out of it and make it not worth the trouble of taking legal action. However, I feel confident that a business like Best Buy would not ask you to send more money to complete the transaction... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
899 Posts |
I buy on ebay all the time - and the seller can in fact clear an errant listing fairly easy. I've had it happen - all they need to do is send you a note indicating they either misplaced the item or found an issue with it and won't send it out in the condition it is in. Then refund your purchase - instantly. There is really little you can do at that point - since you no longer have a feedback button on the item - it is basically just gone. Sure you can complain to ebay - but what are you going to complain about exactly? |
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Replies: 17 / Views: 2,482 |
Posted 05/30/2013 3:39 pm
