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Properly Cleaned? So We See The Improperly Labels Often!

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BuffalosRock's Avatar
United States
500 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2013  2:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add BuffalosRock to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Without the "here are fifty million threads to read" can someone answer three quick questions for me please?

1. What are "approved" methods of cleaning that won't ruin/mess with the surfaces? Acetone dips? What are the different ones per metal-type?

2. I saw someone mention ultrasonic cleaning doesn't "hurt" a coin. Is that an okay method then for all?

3. What do the TPG companies, that now offer cleaning services, use themselves?

Thanks in advance!
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2013  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1)Wet frictionless baths/soaks are generally best, using a neutral solvent such as water, acetone, or xylene depending on the situation.

2)Ultrasonic cleaning will not hurt a coin per se but the basket in an ultrasonic cleaner is typically metal so you can get abrasions on a coin through sheer vibration against a metal surface.

3)NCS and PCGS use proprietary conservation methods that are not disclosed.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2013  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wish it were this simple, so as to be definable with "general" rules. It isn't.

The reason for that is the initial difficulty - something which never gets enough weight in the process - of defining whether the coin you're looking at *should* be conserved. It isn't the process which defines "unacceptable" cleaning, but the result.

Therefore, even the most intrusive methods of cleaning can be "acceptable" when the result is widely considered appropriate. Even a wire brush might be the better alternative to an entirely-encrusted Ancient which has spent two Millenia underwater. Not even distilled water is the right thing if the removed dirt will make the resulting coin look like it's suffering from an active case of the measles.

If you're going to learn coin conservation, the first and by a wide margin most important lesson is knowing which coins to choose.
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bpoc1's Avatar
United States
4078 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2013  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bpoc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SsuperDdave, very valid points also,
Quote:
If you're going to learn coin conservation, the first and by a wide margin most important lesson is knowing which coins to choose.

Now let me see, should I do this
acetone?
ultrasonic?
distilled water?
olive oil?
xylene?
Leave them be?
Knowledge is the key!
Where do we start? Conservation Lesson #100 or #101?
Or which coins to Choose? Lesson # 100 or 101?

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Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2013  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1. Acetone should be fine but might react with some metals - I hear it tones iron so you shouldnt use it with steel cents I guess.

For ancient coins its a different kettle of fish - they act differently to cleaning. For example, olive oil can be used with any ancient coin (well, any stable ancient coin) but could cause adverse affects to moderns like toning or slight corrosion.

2. As stated previously, the only issue is the coin wibrating against the metal basket.

3. Black magic, probably chemicals. Speaking of which, BadThad is the inventor of VerdiCare - look into it, its like a 1-Up for copper coins.
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52Raymo's Avatar
United States
8516 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2013  10:12 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Every time a coin is cleaned an angel loses its wings.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Tbone's Avatar
United States
1839 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2013  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tbone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Every time a coin is cleaned an angel loses its wings.

This.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16827 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2013  11:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The key thing to ask when considering cleaning is, "Why?". What, exactly, are you trying to remove from the coin? Varnish? Stickytape residue? Marker pen ink? Germs? PVC goo? Dirt - as in real, literal, you-could-grow-crops-in-it-if-you-had-enough-of-it dirt? Ugly tarnish / toning? You need to specify a target for your cleaning action, and the method required depends on the target, much more than the composition of the coin.

That being said, some metals are more sensitive to adverse reactions to cleaning agents than others. You've got to try real hard to chemically ruin a gold coin, but it's very tricky to find something that will clean a zinc or iron coin without ruining it.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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BuffalosRock's Avatar
United States
500 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2013  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuffalosRock to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks! Most helpful. I ordered an ultrasonic cleaner with a plastic basket that specifically states it cleans coins with no damage or adverse effects to them. I'll try it out on some of the "melt value" silver I have to see how it does before using it on my "album targets".

Mostly want to get the dirt off some 20th century silver coins of all denominations - maybe some nickels and copper eventually - but want to do it without harming the coin. I've thusfar left all coins completely alone but would like to clean surface gunk off of some of them. I asked one dealer at a local show that has all "clean looking" silver what he used to clean them and he said plain old-fashioned silver polish and a rag - OUCH! Haven't bought any raw coins from him since.

Eventually it would be cool to find a way to get rid of toning from silver without scratching them up - like most I see on ebay. But first I am just interested in cleaning the dirt and residue off some of them.

Had not heard about ultrasonic cleaning coins before a few days ago - ran across a post here I think that said it does the trick on most without scratching/hurting them. I could see a problem if using a steel basket possibly but with a plastic one it sounds like a viable solution. Dipping in solvents and scrubbing of any kind just don't seem "proper".
Edited by BuffalosRock
06/05/2013 10:32 am
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 06/05/2013  10:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some great advice from Bio and Dave....as always.

Personally, I'd stay far away from an ultrasonic cleaner. I don't care what anyone says. The process creates air bubbles around the coin surface which can damage the patina/surface.....even using straight distilled water. I've experimented with it a lot using a lab grade sonicator and I didn't like the end result on ANY of my tests.

Keep in mind that EVERY coin and conservation project is unique and thus must be handled differently.
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 06/05/2013  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Eventually it would be cool to find a way to get rid of toning from silver without scratching them up


This is a VERY easy process with an acid-thiourea dip like EZest. It's also very easy to completely ruin your silver coin if you don't know what you're doing.
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VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR
https://verdi.care/
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2013  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I ordered an ultrasonic cleaner with a plastic basket that specifically states it cleans coins with no damage or adverse effects to them.


Only a non-numismatist would write something like that.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2013  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SsuperDdave is right about that. Be very skeptical of any cliam such as that. Tarnx claims that it is good for cleaning coins too, but it does a good job of leaving them stripped and lusterless.
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 06/06/2013  09:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR
https://verdi.care/
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silvermaniac's Avatar
Spain
134 Posts
 Posted 06/07/2013  8:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When I began collecting silver coins I also wanted all of them shinny and clean; I was even close to buying one of those ultrasonic cleaners. Thank god it finally got into my head that old silver coins look immensely better as they come than artificially shinny and clean. And this is specially true for lower and mid grades.
Edited by silvermaniac
06/07/2013 8:26 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
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 Posted 06/07/2013  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1. Leave coins as they are. Eventually in the future someone will thank you for that.
2. Was stated possibly by someone sitting at a bar to long. 3. TPG's now use a wire brush, miscellaneous acids, then as a final, spit. OR they just tell people they cleaned a coin and charge for that service.
Unless you know what your doing, always just leave coins alone. Sort of like not taking an Egyptian Mummy to a car wash.
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