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 Replies: 18 / Views: 2,304 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
6563 Posts |
Because it's a fake double die fake that you surprisingly don't have yet?
Edited by GO
05/23/2007 8:11 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
Because it is a subway token to the Vatican? Sorry, 2nd guess, BECAUSE IT IS NOT REAL. The top tag end of the top ribbon on subway Bob's head on the obverse is almost straight instead of having a wave upward just before the end. plus other things. Jim Orrrrrr am I way off base?  http://cgi.ebay.com/1776-MEXICO-SIL...II_W0QQitemZ290118795904QQihZ019QQcategoryZ541QQcmdZViewItem Like this. |
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
Even considering the lighting issue, this coin does not look like it has the correct amount of silver in it - it looks like there is a lot of copper in it. Also, the lettering shows no wear, but the designs look worn. The milling is also doubled which I find very strange. Also, maybe it's me, but I can't find KM106.2. The closest I could come to this coin is KM109 if it was authentic.
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
Let me take a stab at it. Would love to see the closer images.
This is probably quite a stretch, but here it goes.
Contemporary counterfeit.
Appears to be a copper cast. Thinned-out letters could be the result of metal shrinking while cooling. The cast appears to have numerous impressions of the original. It was later re-touched (dentils recut manually at 9 o'clock on obverse). Perhaps also washed in quicksilver, which has since worn off...
Ok, ok, that's my theory. Would love to see some close-up shots :)
Bob, if it's not, in fact, cast - I have another theory :) But I'll stick with my original opinion.
~Roman
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5362 Posts |
Well, great quick responses. The coin is a counterfeit. But no one has the right answer. First: It is the Correct weight Second: It is the correct silver assay Third: It is a struck coin - three times actually Fourth: The color in the scan is off - it is not coppery in person Here is a clue. Image Insert: |
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
I see...
Weak pressure might be the reason for multiple impressions... Manual lever press?
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Moderator
United States
6563 Posts |
The ebay auction states 1802 when this is an 1800. The date looks handmade almost. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
The fact it was made on a low pressure press is quite likely - but that is not what caused me to KNOW it was a fake.
Clue # 1 actually contains a key problem with this coin.
I might ask "What is the first thing you should do when evaluating any coin?"
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
graceoutcast - Getting Warm.
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
First things - weight, edge, dentils? The date looks like a partially filled, hand-punched die, to me...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
The denticles are incorrect. I'm trying to remember, I believe it has to do with the order in which they were put on the coin.
Jim
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Moderator
United States
6563 Posts |
The 4 different numbers of the date were punched individually.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
The simple fact is this coin never existed. In 1800 Mexico City used assayer initials FM. In 1802, the assayer initials were FT. That fact alone proves it is a forgery. The edge proves it was made in the Northeast US between 1870 and the 1890s. Image Insert: It is a struck silver contemporary counterfeit made for use in China. This was the period in time when US silver prices were falling rapidly and the Chinese merchants were paying 105% of face for Bustman Dollars. Silver prices dropped from the $1 per ounce range to under 40 cents an ounce. It got so bad that Japan demonetized foreign silver dollars and applied the Gin countermarks to their own Yen coins. The shot I took of the edge shows two really good in person clues which prove this is a fake. They can be used when the date mint assayer combo did exist. Note the diagonal grip marks OVER the edge design on one part and the WAVY application on the other half. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Here is a bit of a developement of Clue 2 into clue 3 to explain the diagonal marks (grip marks) and wavy edge. The picture is taken at the seam between the two edge applications. Image Insert: |
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
I guess checking for "existence" should be the first step :)
Nice Boston!
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Replies: 18 / Views: 2,304 |
Posted 05/23/2007 8:09 pm
