1909-S VDB Counterfeit

I myself would not ask that here.

miket: Why?

I maintain 'black' collection of (mainly ancient) coins, for my own education.

Most of the pieces in it have come from job lots in leading public auctions, where the lots were clearly described as fake coins. Each lot was examined by me on the view day, before making a decision to bid.

I wouldn't have bought them otherwise.

You can't personally examime big ticket items on ebay, before making a decision to bid, and it is for this reason that I never use ebay.

I understand the reasons why ebay take at least some effort to protect their reputation, but their 'modus operandum' is not perfect.

As long as you know you are purchasing a copy or non-authentic coin and the seller knows that as well, then more power to you.
The problem comes in when you either have an unscrupulous seller or an ignorant buyer who does not know the difference.
For this reason, I am grateful ebay has this policy in place.
If not clearly marked "copy", I think they should never be allowed.

The correct term is "fake", i.e. something made to deceive a collector or dealer. Counterfeits are made to be used in everyday commerce.

ebay changed their rules some months ago to not allow the sale of fakes anymore. That doesn't mean they have been eliminated from ebay but there are a lot less lately from what I've seen. There were many Chinese sellers openly selling fakes. All you had to do is message them that you didn't want COPY on your coin and they'd send you a clean fake. I shudder to think of it, but I suspect there are millions of these in the world.

The best fakes are pretty much "one offs". Liked an added mintmark. A dealer I have known for years had an awesome S-VDB fake always in his display case. It said "NOT FOR SALE" on the 2x2. Jokingly, I asked "how much?" every time I looked in the case.....this went on for years. He even started greeting me with "hi howmuch". LOLOLOL

One year, finally, he said he was sick of hearing me ask how much and that he had his fun with it, so he asked if I wanted to buy it. I made a very generous offer (I really did want it and it's a woody) and he took it.

Here it is, in my collection now, labeled 'NOT FOR SALE' still. It's a good fake but the MM position is wrong & it's not exactly correct, the periods between the D and B are weak and the other die markers are not present:

That mint mark is "so right, it's wrong"!

("right" as in directional orientation)

A genuine 1909-S-VDB Lincoln Cent was produced off of one of four dies. The last die which is #4 is the same one used to produce the semi-key 1909-S Lincoln Cent. If you buy a non-certified 1909-S-VDB you have to check your literature to make sure it matches one of those four die characteristics.

And what makes you think they aren't there? If good enough fakes are there, very possibly wouldn't be noticed. AND they would sell, get put in an Album or a 2x2, put aside and possibly never noticed. Most people would be amazed at how many fakes are in their collections and don't know. Fakes are all over the plaace at coin shows, coin web sites, coin stores, etc. I've known dealers that were purchased fakes and didn't know they were. One dealer bought a 16D Merc, sent it to a TPGS, it came back as fake. He didn't think so, so sent to a different TPGS and it came back graded and slabbed. That too made me wonder just how many real coins get dismissed as fakes. So that alone makes me wonder how many fakes have actually gone through even TPGS's and no one knew. It is possibly only the poor quality fakes that get noticed and really good ones just get put into collections. Something to think about when you look at your better coins in your collection.