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Best I Can Get On A $400 Budget? Help

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 Posted 09/18/2013  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your XS camera should come with a software disk that has the EOS Control utility as well as Digital Photo Professional, the editing program capable of doing RAW editing of the XS output. If not, you need to get a copy of that disk. When does the camera arrive?
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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rmc's Avatar
Canada
478 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2013  01:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I checked out "Paint.net" and its not very user friendly.

rmpsrpms - Yes the camera does have the software with it...Im expecting it to get to me next week, I'm thinking Wed
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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4381 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2013  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I checked out "Paint.net" and its not very user friendly.


It has a lot more power than paint and is a lot easier to use than the $500 Photoshop.

Depends what you need to do. If it's just removing backgrounds, I guess paint can do it for you with enough time & effort. But even there, learning the minimal tools in Paint.Net is, IMHO, worth it.
-----Burton
50 year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
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Owned by four cats and a wife of 40 years (joined 1983)
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2013  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I checked out "Paint.net" and its not very user friendly.


Here's where we run into the effects of my previous comment regarding the sophistication of the knowledge you'll need. Paint.net is among the simplest of the graphics softwares capable of the kind of image manipulation you will need to learn. Honestly, you'll need this ability less than those who use cheaper cameras or P&S rigs to image coins; much of the frustration you see people express about their images from such cameras is stuff that's easily corrected in this kind of postprocessing software. This is a skill everyone who shoots coins needs to have.

Good coin images are not automatic, but the course you're taking makes the process the easiest of all options. That doesn't mean it's easy.

These are the processing skills you'll have to master, and it assumes you're maximizing the capability of your imaging rig. Anyone posting images online needs them:

Cropping
Resizing, both proportional and forced to a specific number
Saved image Quality, to reduce filesize for online posting
Sharpening (normally optional, but not always, especially with 100% crops)

These skills should be in your repertoire, but are not imperative if you master the camera's ability to correct for them (camera skill in parens after)

Hue & Saturation (White Balance)
Contrast (Lighting strongly influences contrast)

I use the Gimp to do these things. It's the antithesis of "user friendly," but I don't really much care - I don't know a whole heck of a lot about its' more advanced capabilities, just those aspects I've listed above. And so it can be for you - whatever software you choose, you don't need to become an expert, just a guy who can do those things.

If you don't like Paint.net, have a look at Irfanview to see if you like it better.
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rmc's Avatar
Canada
478 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2013  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I understand Ill need to use editing software to crop and do very basic things however isn't the whole idea of getting better camera equipment to minimize the editing to try make my coin pictures look good? I was under the assumption that good camera equipment and lighting would do away with the pain of trying to enhance the picture. Cropping and resizing is understandable
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2013  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I was under the assumption that good camera equipment and lighting would do away with the pain of trying to enhance the picture.


Precisely, which is why I put the more advanced editing functions into a second category and indicated proper camerawork would negate the need for them. And you'll never need sharpening to post a fullsize coin image again - when your original images are in excess of 2000px in diameter, the downsizing process adds sharpness to the extent that even an imperfect image becomes quite postable.

So if you can find a software which performs these minimal functions to your liking, by all means grab it and use it for the moment. The other things can be "down the road" skills. Don't forget, you're acquiring top-line equipment, and you might as well acquire the top-line photography/postprocessing skills to accompany it.

No use buying a Corvette if you're not going to learn to drive fast.
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srs77's Avatar
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2948 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2013  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
you fit a lot in that 400.00 budget. Those of us who do more photography than just coins have spent many many more dollars on equipment. Myself, for example, own 1 DSLR, 3 SLR's one point and shoot, more lenses than I care to admit, light tent, lighting rigs and more things like tripods (yes I own more than one) slaved triggers, remote triggers plus much more and I haven't even started on the software... I primarily use Adobe Lightroom and Adobe CS Suite... photoshop mainly though.

When you're talking the software end of it, I agree with SsuperDdave that learning the tools are essential skills you must master. As far as re-touching your photos after the fact, even the best photographers do a little touch up. But.... only if they have to, so properly lighting and setting up your camera for the shot is most essential. The more prep work you do the better your shots can be...

Just some random thoughts, nice purchases by the way! Can't wait to see some of your coin photos... Good Luck and happing shooting!
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 Posted 09/18/2013  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The amount of adjustment you need to do is driven mostly by your lighting technique. If you are willing to take time to get your placement, diffusion, and balance just right then you will need little or no adjustment. But the photo equipment you bought won't do much to help this, so you will almost certainly need to adjust levels no matter what you use to take a picture.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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rmc's Avatar
Canada
478 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2013  5:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks guys...No matter what, editing is in my future.

Lets talk about lighting technique, placement, diffusion, and balance. What tips can you provide me as to get the best possible picture before editing? I purchased 2 Ikea Jansjo LED lights http://www.ebay.com/itm/22128083201....m1497.l2649 for lighting.

I have read a lot about using a plastic milk jug as a diffuser for shiny coins...any thoughts on this?

I also bought a remote shutter release as to minimize camera shake.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 09/18/2013  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I also bought a remote shutter release as to minimize camera shake.


No need. As I've said in this thread two or three times before, you're going to run the entire photo session from your computer. All camera settings, including triggering the shutter. All you do with the camera is set it up the first time, focus - using your computer monitor, which will be showing you the coin live, and the rest happens with the keyboard and the mouse. That's why we were so interested in whether or not you got the software.

As regards milk jug diffusers: keep the milk in them. I do not advocate any kind of diffuser, save those minor pieces of translucent paper which you may or may not wish to add directly to the Jansjo. Look up some of the neat things that Ray has done with diffuser designs using the Jansjos; start here:

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...PIC_ID=87392

You'll probably learn more about coin photography from that one thread than anywhere else on the Internet.

Me? I rarely diffuse at all, preferring direct light under almost all circumstances.
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rmc's Avatar
Canada
478 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2013  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought the software was basically for editing and user guide, I didn't realize it would allow me to control all the camera functions from via my computer...that's great! Anyone looking to buy a remote shutter release and empty milk jug? lol
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 Posted 09/21/2013  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the sequence of steps I would suggest to set up and get used to this equipment, at least the 75mm lens. The microscope objective will take some additional steps, as will photo editing, but this will get you started...

1. Install the software. EOS Utility and Digital Photo Professional.
2. Hook up the camera and make sure the software communicates with it... check:
a) That the "control camera" part of utility comes up (this is what's called the Zoom Browser)
b) That the camera will go into Live View (make sure camera knob is on Av)
c) There is another thread SD was authoring where I listed basic camera setup steps. Follow that
3. Attach the focusing helicoid to EOS adapter
4. Attach M39-M42 adapter to Nikon lens
5. Attach lens to helicoid
6. Turn off camera.
7. Attach the whole lens assembly to the camera
8. Set lens aperture to f4
9. Look through the viewfinder and verify you can see an image (at infinity), probably a bit fuzzy
10. Add extensions as needed between helicoid and lens to frame different size coins. Total extensions will be between 0 and 75mm to go from infinity to 1:1

At this point you can try using the camera somewhat normally, handheld. Get a feel for the amount of extension you need to frame different size coins. You can even use it as a normal walkaround camera for bugs, flowers, even stuff at infinity with the right extensions (maybe just the helicoid). Make notes on the extension lengths and working distances you need for different coin sizes. This will help you in setting up the camera later on tripod. For each setting of coin size, try to set the focus helicoid to the center of its range. This will give you some +/- adjustability.

After you're comfortable with how it all works:

11. Mount camera on tripod
12. Adjust extension lengths and working distance / tripod height per your notes for the coin size you want to shoot
13. Plug in the USB
14. Turn on camera
15. Turn on Live View using the EOS Utility / Zoom Browser
16. Turn on your lights
17. Set aperture to f22
18. Put mirror where coin goes.
19. Adjust tripod so camera is looking straight back to the center of the lens
20. Set aperture to f5.6 if you're shooting Dimes/Cents/Nickels, or f8 if you're shooting Quarters/Halves/Dollars
21. Remove mirror and place coin
22. Coarse focus with the focus helicoid, adjusting tripod again if needed
23. Move coin until it is framed correctly in the Live View screen
24. Adjust your lighting
25. Turn on Zoom View (magnfier icon)
26. Fine-tune focus with the helicoid
27. Snap the shot
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Edited by rmpsrpms
09/21/2013 12:35 pm
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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2013  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is such a fantastic thread... Thank you!
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rmc's Avatar
Canada
478 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2013  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Thanks again Ray!! You have been a HUGE help to me with this set up and I believe a lot of people will benefit from this. I cant wait to get everything and start playing with my new toy. Once all the equipment arrives, I will be posting pictures. Thanks again for everyone's help and input
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 Posted 10/02/2013  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In case anyone's wanting to duplicate the setup we've been discussing, here's a 75mm EL-Nikkor for a great price...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-EL-Ni...B:SS:US:3160
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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