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Which TPG Service Is Better?

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 2,577Next Topic  
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2013  6:29 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I know it's a broad question, but to be more specific...which between PCGS and NGC gives a more correct grade? I'm not looking for my coins to be over graded, but don't want them to be under graded either. Apologize in advance if this has bee discussed before. Please link a previous thread if convenient. Thanks. Ed.

*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***

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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2013  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS coins generally have a higher premium. For modern coins their 70 population is usually lower too for what its worth.

Its hard to say more correct grade since part of the process is subjective, but between the two I would say PCGS is a little more consistent overall though both are good.
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solotime's Avatar
United States
2311 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2013  10:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add solotime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS is better
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2013  1:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, thanks. Yeah, I knew that the PCGS slabs seemd to do a bit better on ebay. Just wasn't sure if their grading was up to snuff, but apparently it is. Thanks again. Ed.
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denco7's Avatar
United States
2543 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2013  1:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add denco7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They are both exactly the same. Grading is subjective. They both use the same grading basis' and criteria. The best NGC grader is better than the worst PCGS grader and visa versa. Much like grading is subjective, " the profit is in the perception." For now the market " perceives PCGS coins to be graded stricter. I don't see it, but if I wanted full value for my coins, I suppose for now I would send them to PCGS.
Edited by denco7
10/10/2013 1:56 pm
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2013  08:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grading is so subjective that the only "objective" standard is a rather minimal one - "get my coin within 5 points circulated or a 3-point range in Mint State" - and either TPG meets that standard. Egregious mistakes happen in both slabs (at least, they're egregious to me ), generosity happens and pessimism happens. In any event, all of those adjectives are purely subjective based on the personal opinion of the viewer.

I would generally recommend PCGS over NGC for Moderns; they are more conservative, even accounting for the fact (and we don't consider this too often here or at any coin forum) that NGC is a measurably larger company and grades more coins than PCGS, so their Pops will be larger. Consider the reason why so many of the true rarities can be found in NGC slabs.

All the same, NGC is more generous with top-grade Moderns, but I do not mean that statement to include grades below 69.

The "PCGS Premium" is truth, but I feel that perceived gap in quality does not exist today to the extent that it once did. One reason that gap is lessening: the Internet Age is ushering in a new generation of numismatists (many of them the same old numismatists with a cool new tool) who are more capable of grading the coin and not the slab due to exposure to huge stores of information and shared advice formerly unavailable to them. There was a period during which (IMO) PCGS did simply do it better than NGC, those slabs are still extant and that's the only factual basis left for the existence of the "premium."

Otherwise, just grade the darn coin and pay for what you see.

ANACS does not do well with some issues - Lincolns come to mind - but I wouldn't send a Morgan dollar anywhere else because their in-house talent with that issue is large-gap superior to the other two.

Quite frankly - as you've obviously already determined - the whole thing is a hit-or-miss proposition. As regards authentication, I'd happily trust any of the 3 mentioned above and ICG as well. As regards varieties, I frankly prefer ANACS and ICG to either PCGS or NGC.

As regards marketplace value, the reality is undergoing a sea change as we speak and I honestly do not expect the perceived difference in quality to do anything but lessen going forward. Do not discount the impact the Internet is having on the sophistication of the average collector. I'm going to throw out 5 years as a number (possibly more, probably not less) as the point where the average buyer - even if they lack the personal chops to eye-grade the issue appropriately - will have not only access to sufficient information, but knowledge that the information exists and the sophistication to access it, sufficient to make informed decisions of any issue and judge the coin regardless of the slab.

So if I'm submitting today with long-term hold intent, I'm really not considering "perceived market value" any more.
Valued Member
United States
211 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyJames to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm definitely in the demographic of new, internet age numismatists that SsuperDdave is referring to. Within a year I've gone from having no clue how to treat MS60 or higher coins and being scared of plastic/TPGs to feeling comfortable developing my own opinion of a grade within 2 grade points MS or 5 points circulated. When I first started reading these forums, I had little respect for ANACs based on what people said. Now I definitely consider them to be highly professional, qualified graders. Even if one TPGs consistency is a little lower than another's, that still means they are pretty darn good on 95% or more of the coins.

I've found that my personal taste is a bigger concern, as a buyer, than which TPG slabs the coin. As a buyer, I weight eye appeal, coloration, strike, and surface qualities higher than the TPGs do when considering grade. It's a bit of a nightmare for me because I can see a 63 and a 65 that are equal in my eyes, but the grey sheet dictates a world of a difference. I ultimately get driven towards the 63 from a pricing perspective even though the "me" grading company would give them both a 64 and price them equally.

An important question I have to ask myself is: "If I can't tell the difference between these two different high grades (or these two different TPGs with the same grade), then why I am I willing to pay so much for them?"

Lately, I've spent more time worrying about how the slabs visually look and are sized between the different TPGs rather than their grading consistency and perceived value.
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2013  6:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is how I rank them from personal experience, in todays market:

1 - PCGS
2 - ANACS
3 - NGC
4 - SEGS (previously PCI)
5 - ICG

SsuperDdave said it well the top 2 PCGS & NGC are quite competitive, ICG rarely crosses over to either of them, ANACS coins crossover at about 80% or greater in most cases. SEGS I haven't used in more than 10 years, but still never overlook purchasing coins in their holders that could be bargains, because other dealers or collectors won't even consider them, ICG seems most used for modern coins and non circulating stuff (which I don't collect), and never seems to bring sell prices level with any of my top three TPGs.

Buy the coin not the slab, learn how to grade on your own and you'll do okay! For authentication only I rate ANACS as one of the best!
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2013  9:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1. NGC
2. ANACS
3. PCGS
These are my rankings for accurately graded coins as per how I would grade the coin.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2013  12:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
4 - SEGS (previously PCI)

Does this mean that you used to consider PCI to be #4 and you now think SEGS is #4, or are you implying that SEGS used to be PCI? Because SEGS and PCI are two different companies and have no connection with each other.

As to which is better it really depends on what series and what grade range you are talking about.
Edited by Conder101
11/19/2013 12:20 pm
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2013  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMHO,PCGS is more accurate and is worth more when it comes time to sell.
John1
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2013  03:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Does this mean that you used to consider PCI to be #4 and you now think SEGS is #4, or are you implying that SEGS used to be PCI? Because SEGS and PCI are two different companies and have no connection with each other.


Yes I know they are/were separate companies, I just read what I wrote, not very clear on my part, sorry for that one I was not trying to be confusing.

I used to rank PCI at #4 before SEGS came along, around the time PCI went under, well not entirely under but they were bought out by David Lawrence, who renamed them Dominion Grading, they didn't last too long either, what with the real competition form PCGS, NGC and ANACS. ICG held on for quite awhile, my friend started ICG and hired some great people like JP Martin as head authenticator, Leonard Standley and James Taylor. They all moved over to ANACS and ANACS moved from Austin to Englewood, CO (suburb of Denver).

Bottom line PCGS, NGC and ANACS are all I would use myself, and mostly ANACS for the stuff I need slabbed, not so much for grading but for variety attribution and authentication. If I had a high dollar coin it would go to PCGS for the simple reason - they usually bring a premium in the marketplace over NGC and ANACS slabbed coins.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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