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Weak Strike On 28 Buffalo?

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Pillar of the Community

United States
521 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2013  01:33 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add johnny676767 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am trying to learn about weak strikes and worn dies. I read that the 28 P may show a weaker strike than other P's in this series. Is this an example of a weak strike? I always find it hard to see wear in pictures unless they are very good. This seller has some decent pics at the bottom of the listing.

Thanks

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350890445858
Edited by johnny676767
10/09/2013 01:36 am
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2013  02:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It can take some acquired skill to differentiate between a worn die and a weak strike, when most usually, they occur together. Same applies with worn dies in combination with worn coins.
Best to take the examples of uncirculated coins, so that the signs that suggest either worn dies or weak strikes are more easily identified and are not obliterated, and thus may be very hard to find on a worn coin.

A weak strike can be the result of a die pressure trial, where not enough pressure was used. The result is that lower points of the design are fully struck and the design detail is very sharp but the high points on the coin are not struck at all. That is an extreme case, but it illustrates the point. Such coins are usually re melted. More often, a weak strike that has been issued is more fully struck up, but the same principle applies.

A worn die can exhibit some of these features, but for a coin that has been struck using full die pressure, has the design features rounded something like a worn coin, but the fields retain a full radial mint lustre. Quite often with a badly worn die, there is some evidence of radial metal flow on the outside of any peripheral legend. There is evidence of tiny ridges that radiate outwards from the lettering towards the rim. This happens more with dies made in many decades ago, where the science of die hardening may have been less well understood. With worn dies it is usually the high points on the coin that show first evidence of die wear.

Both of the features of worn dies and weak strikes can be well hidden with worn coins.

Thus armed with this knowledge I will leave it to others to comment on the coin pictured. Perhaps I can learn a little more myself!
Edited by sel_69l
10/09/2013 07:22 am
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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4416 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2013  09:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Take a look at a 1924 Buffalo that's also being offered by this seller:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1924-Buffal...em51b2b36bfd

I suspect that this one and the 1928 have been buffed. Given that this seller is offering son many problem coins, ED, in his listing and that he calls a 1929-S Buffalo a rare date, I'd be very cautious about his descriptions.

While the worn die versus weak strike explanation (nice job, sel_69I) may be at play here, IMHO, seeing this coin in hand would likely be telling.
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kanga's Avatar
United States
5825 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2013  09:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Too many tic marks on the coin.
I'd say it's been circulated.
Pillar of the Community
United States
521 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2013  09:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny676767 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. ExoGuy- I can see what sel_69l is saying about ridges radiating outward on the reverse, especially the lower half, of the 24 that you gave as an example. Kanga- I also noticed the hits, especially on the rim, of the 28. Looks like more than normal from the mint.

Thanks all!
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weerdsteev's Avatar
United States
1291 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2013  11:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add weerdsteev to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going to go with a well-worn die as evidenced by the flow lines - particularly on the reverse. Also too many nicks and dings to qualify as BU, in MY book, anyway. Note the north to south mark on the obverse that starts at about where the Indians mouth ends. If it's a clash mark, it's one I'm not familiar with. If it's not, then I'm not sure what it is....
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2013  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think what you have here is a lightly circulated coin (certainly NOT a choice BU) that is evidencing both situations mentioned. I see signs of a worn die and somewhat mushy strike. However, for a coin like this, it has a wonderfully defined horn. They paid a bit less than retail for an AU50, so not a horrid deal. But not a coin I would have gone for I think.
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