The 1911 Obverse Paradox - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 6 / Views: 2,002
dialog_gvf Pillar of the Community Canada 1581 Posts	Posted 10/28/2013 8:06 pm I just realized something. Why does the famous 1911 silver dollar have DEI GRATIA on it, when nothing else did for 1911? Seems odd to be planning on having the only DEI GRATIA obverse be on the silver dollar. Would all the obverses be unique, or would they be reduced from a common model? The traditional history is that there was an outcry from the public over the "godless" 1911 coins, and new obverses were prepared in 1911 for use in 1912. There are 1c, $5 and $10 pattern pieces with the DEI GRATIA and a 1911 date. The explanation being these were tests of the new obverse for the upcoming 1912. The claim is that 1911 specimen set cases were made that would take a 1911 dollar. But, there are two. One also has spaces for $5 and $10 gold pieces, which of course began with the 1912 issues. Could the traditional explanation of timing of the possible silver dollar, be wrong? That the 1911 silver dollar strikes represent pattern strikes for 1912 like the 1c/$5/$10? And that the silver dollar was actually planned in parallel with the new gold coins in 1912? Report this Post to the Staff

DBM Pillar of the Community Canada 9865 Posts	Posted 10/28/2013 11:00 pm The omission of DEI GRATIA on the 1911 was the result of an error by the Liberal finance minister when approving the obverse design for the GeoV coinage after the death of EdwardVII. An election in Sept. of 1911 brought the Conservatives to power,one of the election issues, though minor,was the Liberals incompetence in the handling of the "DEI GRATIA" issue. The matrices and punches for all other denominations had arrived before the election and the coins were in production. "Godless" matrices and punches were made for the silver dollar,but likely in deference to the new Conservative government,the production matrices and punches when they arrived late in the year,had DEI GRATIA on the obverse. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning... -from PCGS website Report this Post to the Staff
DEVLEC Pillar of the Community Canada 3234 Posts	Posted 10/29/2013 09:31 am Thanks DBM and dialog_gvf.. for the added info on the 1911 coinage. Here's one that still perplexes me on my 11 issue. My 5 coin .."11 set" came in this 6 hole case. Does anyone know how many 11 cases "with the 6 hole positioning" are out in the public domain? The Charlton info confuses me ..and the 1/2(damaged) case that they show. I would love to solve this puzzle. If it wasn't issued, how does it get out into the pubic? Any direction in solving this unknown would be appreciated. Report this Post to the Staff
SPP-Ottawa Moderator Canada 10460 Posts	Posted 10/29/2013 10:24 am Thanks for sharing - a wonderful piece of history right there. I wonder if the Currency Museum has one? "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US My eBay store Report this Post to the Staff
DBM Pillar of the Community Canada 9865 Posts	Posted 10/29/2013 10:55 am The Laurier government had committed itself to the production of the silver dollar and the gold coins in 1910 before the death of Edward.No doubt the 6 and 9 coin cases were made in anticipation.How they were distributed remains a mystery,hope someone comes up with an explanation. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning... -from PCGS website Report this Post to the Staff
giorgio11 Valued Member United States 406 Posts	Posted 10/31/2013 5:20 pm Interesting thread guys and gals, thanks for sharing what you know. Best Regards, George Report this Post to the Staff
dialog_gvf Pillar of the Community Canada 1581 Posts	Posted 11/01/2013 5:34 pm Quote: "Godless" matrices and punches were made for the silver dollar,but likely in deference to the new Conservative government,the production matrices and punches when they arrived late in the year,had DEI GRATIA on the obverse. Note the timing. A 1911 silver dollar struck late in the year, with the updated obverse. That isn't a plan for a 1911 release. That seems to point to a plan to release three new coins in 1912: $1, $5, $10. And this was scaled back to the latter two. An aside question: Are most of these patterns and trials destroyed, and we only see a few survive? Presumably if there was a plan to release a $1 in 1911, and there were "godless" matrices and punches created, then there would have been some test strikes. None of which are currently known. Report this Post to the Staff
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