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 Replies: 13 / Views: 2,455 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2480 Posts |
The TIF's Folly lot is now mostly down to the dozens of Constantine era coins, most of which appear to be ordinary and in poor condition. This one is considerably better than those so I pulled it out first. Pretty sure I've got all the major points correct but I'm not finding the precise match in wildwinds. ERIC was a woefully incomplete too-- is that typical for the LRBs in ERIC? Anyway, this is a pretty darn good coin. I have a question though: why is is silver? It's not 'silvered', it appears to be silver in color through-and-through, akin to US ' War Nickels' or similarly debased silver, like the silver in billion tetradrachms. Something like that. By size and by similar coins in wildwinds and elsewhere, this is an AE2 or centenionalis. But... but... but... it doesn't look like bronze. Was there that much variation in their alloys for these late Roman coins? (EDITED: in looking at these pictures there is a more bronze color showing around the letters, so I guess this is a heavily silvered/plated/layered flan)If any of you own a Roman Imperial reference I'd appreciate an assist with the reference number(s).  Magnentius AE centenionalis Trier mint 350-353 AD. 22 mm, 5.9 gm Obv: I'm CAE MAGN ENTIVS AVG, draped & cuirassed bust right Rev: FELICITAS REIPVBLICAE, Magnentius standing left, holding Victory on globe & labarum. A in right field. TRP in exergue. Ref: ? Looks like it's somewhere around RIC VIII 261-266 Lots of good things going on with this one. Love the Chi Rho topping the labarum. Nice to see a late Roman in this lot that's not just a teensy flake of bronze with vague devices! Edited by ThisIsFun
12/01/2013 8:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts |
I am not well versed on these coins but when I first looked at it I thought to myself oh wow an Argenteus...but I believe the weight to be to heavy. Therefore without doing my own research I cant be of much help.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2480 Posts |
I thought the same thing too but am not well versed in the denominations and lingo for these late Romans, and ERIC is pretty skimpy for Magnentius.
I just saw a Magnentius argenteus in CNG archives, weight was 3.24 so I think you're right about that.
Were these large AEs still silvered that late in the empire?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts |
not sure-
I do think the coin is not silvered but rather, Billon. Maybe 60-70% silver. I dont think the coin is plated or washed but rather a silver/ bronze alloy.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts |
I wonder if the Miliaresion was produced this early? Some of those got pretty hefty until the late Byzantine period. I must say it rminds me more of a Hexagram.....hum...I want to hear what others have to say. Those Romans made aaaaallllooooootttt of coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2838 Posts |
It looks like RIC VIII Trier 264 to me. Also, Bastien Le Monnayage of Magnence (350-353) Wetteren 1964, No 24.
When he came to power he churned these billon coins out, I guess you just have a high silver content or nicely coated one.
I read somewhere potentially 50% of Magnentius coins could be considered 'unofficial' so quite a lot of variance is shown on his coins.
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Interesting to see so much silvering on this coin. I also came up with RIC VIII Trier 264.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2480 Posts |
So there's not a separate RIC number for the different mint mark? Mine is TRP and the wildwinds example is TRS. Are the P and S officina designations?
Up to 50% unofficial huh? Interesting!
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
Would it be possible to show a photo of the edge of this piece?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2480 Posts |
Starting from bottom view, going clockwise.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2838 Posts |
Quote:
So there's not a separate RIC number for the different mint mark? Correct, 264 covers Prima and Secunda, the two workshops known for your coin. RIC also places yours as the 'second series' of issues. Yours is slightly heavier than the norm, I can certainly see why it could be mistaken for silver. Quote:
Up to 50% unofficial huh? Interesting! Indeed it is, there were a few epidemics around this time in unofficial coinage, probably more out of necessity rather than the locals 'on the fiddle' but it means we have quite a spectrum of styles floating around today. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2480 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
104 Posts |
TIF,
The coin might contain a higher silver content than normal, but if so it would be exceptionally rare (although not unheard of)... I have been dealing in ancient coins in one way or another since 1991, including a long stint at CNG. At this point I certainly have handled hundreds of thousands of late Roman coins. In all this time I have only ever seen one post-337 billon coin with sufficiently high silver content to have a decidedly silver appearance.
I believe you mentioned that the coins in this lot look like they were acquired by the collector in the 1950s-70s. I have seen many instances where a late Roman bronze coin that was zealously cleaned at some time in the distant past took on a silver-like appearance (I usually see these in old estate collections when cataloguing group lots for auction). Do you think perhaps this might be the case with your coin?
If you are certain it is high silver content billon, then it's really a super neat coin!
Best,
John
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2480 Posts |
That could be the case, John. Most of the envelopes which had dates of purchases were late 1950's and many of the coins are very aggressively cleaned. It is certainly possible that, intentionally or not, some of the coins were depletion gilded causing a higher concentration of silver to appear on the surface.
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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,455 |
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Posted 12/01/2013 9:07 pm
