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Want To Start Collecting - Advice Please

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underworldmagic's Avatar
United Kingdom
6 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2013  5:03 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add underworldmagic to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi all,

I have started investing in bullion bars.

I have now started looking into coin collecting for investment purposes (buy, and then hold to sell in 30-40 years time). I find USA coins really interesting.

Do you have any advice for me as to what I should be looking at for USA coins for investment purposes?

also which types should I go for (proofs, uncirculated, circulated etc?) sorry I'm not really that savvy with all the types of releases.


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persistnt's Avatar
Canada
726 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2013  5:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add persistnt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yu hav good question........and the way yu phrase it has me scared.....I'll reply anyway.......yu are probably smarter than me........Knowledge is key with coins... Experts say buy the book before the coin........Past performance with types of coins, and bullion,,,should be an example (Good) for future buys... Here is an idea--buy a book (Coin) from the 1960 or 1970's and see how those coin went and buy the current versions of the good performers..........Morgans, eagles, gold first nations,,,whatever.....Some collectors will only buy the coins they personally enjoy or like.....another way to go..........
Edited by persistnt
12/14/2013 5:26 pm
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2013  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let me ask this, do you actually enjoy coins or is this purely for investment.

If you enjoy coins and are looking to make a hybrid investment killing two birds with one stone type thing thats one thing, but if its just solely for investment buy stocks instead
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4588 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2013  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Purely for investment? Buy the rarest and best you can afford. One of a kind $10M items have held value. Not a lot else has.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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Fat Freddy's Avatar
United States
1200 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2013  6:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fat Freddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
+1 with what BB said.

If you're investing, stay away from numismatics and bullion -- no guarantee of principal, no guarantee of growth or return or anything else, very speculative,
unpredictable, fickle, etc... The very stuff ulcers are made of.

If you'd like an enjoyable collection-type hobby, it's a good idea, so go for it. Figure out what you like (classical silver US coins? something else?) and start
building your collection(s) -- hopefully at a rate that won't be injurious and while keeping overall life and other financial priorities in their proper place. Just
realize that the odds are strong the money you'll be putting into it isn't guaranteed and that you should look it as hobby/collection expenses and not an
investment. Your heirs may (or may not) end up thanking you.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
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matthewvincent's Avatar
United States
3486 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2013  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some advice to consider:
A coin which is today common, found at every coin shop and in every dealer's display case, is unlikely to be a good investment. TOO MANY available.
A coin which is difficult to find today, requiring months or years of searching, is more
like to be a good investment over 30 to 40 years. TOO FEW available.
Identifying these coins requires study. Unless you are willing to devote yourself to this I and perhaps other members are at a loss to help you.

Now, on to my personal opinion:
1) NOTHING after 1933! ( US coins)
2) Scarcer dates in higher condition. A single, scarce coin in EF or AU condition will do better than 10 or 20 common coins in mint state.
3) Stick to coins which have a proven track record in terms of popularity. Fads are, and have always been, something to avoid.

Confused? GOOD! There is no easy way to achieve what you wish to do.
Persevere in your studies, and you create a good foundation for your quest.

Oh, and what basebal21 said: 'What is on your heart? Fun or pure investment. Stocks may be better!'
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NathanASE's Avatar
United States
1511 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2013  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NathanASE to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great advise already given..

The best way to make a small fortune off of coins is to start with a large fortune... (Thanks SsDd for the great quote!)

Coins are a great hobby, but unfortionitly, usually a poor investment. It's very hard to even get your money back with most coins on the market.. The ones that increase substantially in value are the ones that cost a fortune to begin with. The days are over where were seeing huge increases, when I say this I'm referring to the increases from, say 1900 to now. Where our great grandpa could have bought a coin for $20 which today is worth multiple thousands... Again, aside from extremely rare coins these days are over.

So basically collecting as a hobby... Great! Collecting for investment.. Not so great.. Even in 30-40 years you'd be lucky to break even.. Unless of corse you have millions to dump on the nicest, rarest coins out there.
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Tom Goodheart's Avatar
United Kingdom
856 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2013  7:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tom Goodheart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As the others have said, coins are not guaranteed to go up in value. Sentiment and fashion play a part in coin collecting as well as rarity and condition.

For example, women of my grandparent's generation were often advised to buy a mink coat. The expense was high, but they retained their value. Nowadays? You couldn't even give one away.

As for bullion, well, come the zombie apocalypse food, water and medicines will be the most valuable commodities on earth. Bullion bars will just be something heavy to throw in a pinch. OK, maybe I'm joking a bit there, but ..

.. if you like coins and are prepared to spend time and energy learning about them then past performance suggests you should make a reasonable return.

If you aren't bothered about them or don't want to do the studying, there are easier investment options.

Beyond that without knowing likes, budget etc all I can really say is that nine time out of ten the condition of a coin is what counts. Sure, there are some really rare coins around. But mostly a common coin in uncommonly good condition will keep its value far better than a rare but uninspiring one.

Buying the best coin you can for the money is good advice. However, knowing what a better coin looks like, whether it's easy or difficult to find others in similar condition and whether the price is fair takes time to learn.

I just thought of one other thing. Remember that a coin that might raise (or cost you) a small fortune in the US can easily struggle to make back what you paid in the UK. Collecting trends, interests and markets are quite different across the world.

If you are planning on investing, an essential part is having a plan as to where, when and how you will dispose of your investments.
Edited by Tom Goodheart
12/14/2013 7:33 pm
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5822 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2013  11:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Everybody have their own personal outlook and perspective about coin investment, in the beginning I choose to collect what appeals to me, then later on I decided to invest in a series I really like, after some time I'd completed the set, but while researching about the series I found out there's varieties and errors to the series I don't have in my collection.

I believe the best coin investors that gains the most is the knowledgeable one's and not just in monetary value.

Also 30-40 years would be a long time and not consider worthy as an investment in my opinion, but as a collector is not.
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nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2013  11:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
no guarantee of principal, no guarantee of growth or return or anything else, very speculative,
unpredictable, fickle, etc... The very stuff ulcers are made of.

Hey... if I had an ulcer, I would certainly appreciate no guarantee of growth.
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2013  11:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Do you have any advice for me as to what I should be looking at for USA coins for investment purposes?


All depends on your budget here, but yes there are some series I'd be looking at, once you let us know what kind of money you'd like to spend (lump sum, monthly amount)? I'd be glad to offer some ideas up.

But for US coins go for key dates in series that are often collected, get certified coins from PCGS or NGC, and in as high of grades as you can afford. 1877, 1909-S IHC, 1909-S VDB, 1914-D, 1922 plain cents, 1916-D dime, 1916 Standing Liberty quarter, high grade CC Morgan dollars GSA certified, 1889-CC, 1893-S Morgans, MS65 or better gold liberties and Saints. MS66 or better Peace dollars, are but a few of the coins that seem to always keep going up in value.

If you have a substantial amount to spend (more than $50K) then find a good dealer to discuss your collecting investing goals with, look into auction purchases based on their recommendations. I'm speaking of top dealers in the industry, and not your local coin shop dealer, people like Heritage, Stacks/Bowers, Legend, Superior, Jullian Leidman, Rick Snow, Chris McCawley, Doug Winter, David Kagin, etc.

Personally I'd be looking at stuff from Legend Coins if I had a lot to spend right now, they only deal in the absolute finest grade and eye appealing coins available in the marketplace. Google "Legend Coins, Laura Sperber" to see what kind of coins she deals with.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2013  12:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
underworld magic: to the CCF!

You could do worse that starting a collection of dimes. Relatively cheap to buy singly, or in bulk.
Serves twin purposes:
1. Can build a nice date / mint mark collection in lower or higher grades, according to your budget.
2. In lower grades, the examples you find at least have bullion value, or a little more.
3. Bonus: Reasonably easy to find, and to start a series collection with, especially outside the United States.

FSB's with lustre are nice to get, when you find them.

I am not keen on cardboard 'push in' type albums for coins with lustre, OK for grey patinated coins in lower grades.

A vast amount of helpful specialist information has been published on most American series. That includes dimes.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see from the response to your original post, there are plenty of CCF members that are more than ready to help with advice and to share what they know. You will find many 'kindred (numismatic) spirits' here in the CCF.
Edited by sel_69l
12/15/2013 12:47 am
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2013  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Precious metals positions are one thing. Collecting coins for investment, unless you've already been doing it for a decade, is probably a fool's mission.
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Tom Goodheart's Avatar
United Kingdom
856 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2013  06:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tom Goodheart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Like I say, sentiment and taste play a large part in the popularity of a coin.

westcoin mentioned the 1916 Standing Liberty quarter. A key date and, yes, will always be popular for that. But for half the price you'd pay for one in MS63 you could get this:

Want-To-Start-Collecting---Advice-Please

I know which I'd prefer and why. And that's something you'll need to decide for yourself, whether investing or collecting ..
New Member
underworldmagic's Avatar
United Kingdom
6 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2013  06:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add underworldmagic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks you for all your very helpful replies. I dont have much to spend, I am already on an investment plan with Stanley Gibbons for stamp collecting and pay 100GBP per month, again the goal for that is retirement money. An account manager advises me of what stamps will be suitable for my goal. I dont have a passion for stamp collecting, but for investment purposes, yes. By reading the posts I think coin investing is not for me. I like some of the points youve made of requiring a large initial input, to get a small return. The coins I was thinking about were american proof coins (like the american eagles) trying to buy PF70's from consecutive years - but wont get me a great deal in terms of return. To be honest, I really like the look of American Eagles.

Thanks so much again for your great input, I'm glad I asked.
New Member
underworldmagic's Avatar
United Kingdom
6 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2013  07:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add underworldmagic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Westcoin: sorry I tried emailing you but, I cant as I'm a new member.

Hi,

Thanks so much for your reply to my post.

Your reply was really helpful, I am currently looking at the coins which you suggested. I'm not at a specific budget, but if there is something I know is worth buying I will save up for it, I can save around 200 GBP per month. The stamps I buy for investing are around the 1500GBP mark.

I had a look at legend coins, thats way out of my league, wow, I had no idea coins went for that much.

Quick question, the coins which youve suggested, how much do have they gone up in value?

Like I posted, I collect stamps for investing, and they seem to be going up every year. But I do pay upto 1500GBP per stamp so their not cheap (I pay in every month and when I reach the amount they move it over to my account).

Thanks again for being so helpful.


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