What Do You Think Of This 1891 Indian Cent?

I think it's a copy, perhaps an older one--but I'm not good with counterfeits.
It definitely was not struck in the US mint--the details do not match any circulation or pattern strikes.

The coin is in my opinion counterfeit struck to circulate.

I posted it because I was wondering if there is a market and if this type has been noted previously.

It weighs only 2.50 grams and has a very high rim with odd rectangular incuse squares. The dies did not have liberty on the head band and the 1's on the die are reversed. None of the lettering matches period fonts very well. The Indian's portrait is of course wrong. It was found in a very old accumulation that included a genuine 1877 and several other semi-keys including 1908S.

The discussion in the office centered upon the possibility of this being an odd Civil War token with an inverted 6 which would read 9. I could recall no such example so I am of the opinion that it is simply a counterfeit cent from the era.

Period Counterfeit detectors list counterfeit cents of dates in the 1880s and as late as 1897 made to circulate but the list does not include 1891.

neat piece. I imagine it is one of those counterfeits that may be worth more than the real deal in a similar grade...at least I would probably pay more.

If you do slap it on ebay, give a shout out.

The shop owner has decided to keep it because he has never seen one himself. He would not take $50. I have been collecting counterfeits for over 50 years and this is the first struck contemporary I have ever seen. It is definitely struck and not cast. It is clearly not modern.

52Raymo You do know that counterfeits are not allowed on ebay.

When ebay created their policy to eliminate the junk Chinese fakes about 6 years ago and created the TPR system for reporting violations they also eliminated all Contemporary Circulating Counterfeits, restrikes and copies as well. If any of the following coins are reported via the TPR system they will be terminated EVEN IF THE SELLER PROPERLY DESCRIBEDS THE COIN even if it is in full compliance with the HPA 1973.

Roman and Greek Fourees
Barbarous Imitations of ancients
Any middle ages period counterfeit
Evasion half pence and farthings of England and Ireland
Russian Novodels - even the Platinum issues
Haitian copper counterfeits made in France in the 1820's
Spanish Colonial Contemporary Counterfeits (Kleeberg 2Rs)
Colonial US counterfeits from Machin Mills
Davignon Counterfeit Bust Half Dollar Counterfeits
Micro O Morgan dollar counterfeits even encapsulated
Any Riddell listed Mexican counterfeit (pre-1845)
Bashlow restrikes of the Confederate cent
The 1804 Silver dollar - one of the 15 "genuine" ones
Any of the 5 1913 V nickels.

If you ask how do I know? Because I work for ebay as an EMR on their Coin Watch Panel and I specifically have asked management about all of those classes. They are ALL prohibited and would be terminated if they were brought to Trust and Safety's attention.

I have been working from the inside to let ebay managers know that there is a distinction between Contemporary Counterfeits and Numismatic Forgeries. They are not aware that these are distinct types. The Contemporary Counterfeits of NON-Monetary coins (demonetized or withdrawn issues, non-current and non-circulating world coins) SHOULD be exempt from termination as long as properly described.

Why? Because they do not violate counterfeiting laws as written. A counterfeit has to be a monetary item currently in use. Creation of a replica for sale as if genuine is the crime of FRAUD not counterfeiting in the eyes of the law.

If any coin is sold improperly described that is FRAUD by deception - that is what needs to be stopped on ebay. All recently made numismatic forgeries should be banned. But counterfeits made over 75 or 100 years ago of coins that are not now monetary should be allowed to be sold PROVIDED they are legal to own and are properly described.

The exception might have to be made for US coins because most issues remain monetized as of changes in statutes in 1963 and 1965. But how often has the Secret Service taken action on the influx of US dollar copies from China?

Anyone who has any ties in ebay or with the powers that be in the numismatic community - I urge them to start discussing this issue seriously. As long as the efforts of ebay are not focused in the proper area - the junk forgeries like those from China - our time and effort is being wasted on replies to non-critical issues.

We need to direct all efforts at eliminating fraud not removing properly described legal to own collectable contemporary counterfeits.

They sell Hennings on ebay and they're certainly counterfeits. I was just asking.