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Cleaning Coins Maybe A Good Tip?

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uman2's Avatar
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  5:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add uman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was testing how to clean a coins I was doing some acetone soaks on some pre82 cents when I think I might have figured out a common mistake that some may make when doing acetone soaks and thought maybe I would contribute this quick tip about acetone soaks. I was using soda bottle caps or milk jug caps when saoking my cents at which point I started thinking about the thing about pvc or what ever that coins get graded with from being in plastic and I thought what if while doing soaks in plastic containers that the residue on the plastic or the plastic itsself desolves some into the acetone and the rapidly drys onto the coin when it is takin out of the acetone leaving a residue that wont come off unless you do another soak with acetone or maybe it just wont come off at all because it adheres into the pores or something at which point I realized that maybe its best to use glass or ceramic dishes when soaking in acetone and maybe rinse them with acetone first. I think sometime people will just use the first thing they can find that will hold the acetone also I first thought to use plastic because it is soft and would be less likly to damage or scratch the coin. So maybe it would be best to use a glass or ceramic dish very carfully or maybe put a small piece of paper towel or terry cloth towel or something to rest it on inside the dish. I'm sure someone has thought of this before but I havent really read about that. Maybe this could be one resone coins get grade with pvc or whatever because the plastic residue adhering to the coins surface when clean and put into plastic holders. What do you guys think about this idea or tip incase newbies try to use plastic containers to try and clean their coins in then later down the line they get graded or noticed somehow that there is pvc on the surface of the coin. Is this a good idea or have I over thought this?
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nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wouldn't put acetone inside anything plastic. I think there are already tips out there for this (i.e. "Use a mason jar!")
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yingyang's Avatar
Canada
1823 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  6:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yingyang to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
don't
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matthewvincent's Avatar
United States
3486 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Glass or ceramic, both non-reactive materials, are your best bet.
I think you came to the best solution on your own, but never stop thinking
and asking questions.
Excellent practice.
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uman2's Avatar
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah I just wanted to make a post so others might take note of that if the decide they need to dip clean their coins. I remember looking into one of the caps I used and noticed it was warped and didnt look right thats what made me think of this along with some other things I have read about plastic being found on coins which was was attributed to being in plastic holders and thought humm maybe this could be another reason how the plaistic gets on coins because they were dipped in acetone that was stored in some kind of plastic or used in a plastic container. I wonder if the plastic container it comes in could have an affect aswell. What do you think? Do they use a non reactive plastic or coating in the container. Mine came in a small plastic jar with an inset reservour basket that you can set stuff in. Would it be good to just put the coins in there and swirl it around with the lid closed(nope that would lead to buildup of contaminates in the acetone which might dry on what ever else you use it on). Is there any brand of acetone that comes in glass jars to insure no contamination of the acetone? I dont think laddies really care the nail polish the use is pretty harsh itself but for coin cleaning I think it might be best to get some that came in glass jars. Is there any out there does anyone know?
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uman2's Avatar
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope if anyone has made this mistake they wont anymore but like I said It may say pure 100% acetone but what about the platic jar its held in how could we be sure it doesn't contaminate the acetone maybe they should lable it 99.5% pure because of this just saying! Its a touchy subject most know. I will probably google it I'm just making this reply because maybe this has been over looked by some and now that I think of it glass jars would be very good to insure truly 100%percent pure acetone but they may use a nonreactive coating or what ever inside the jars but its still good to remember the container or dish you use might affect/contaminate the acetone. Id buy acetone that came like that from a coin shop for sure.Just saying. Hint hint
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uman2's Avatar
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  6:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rather then browsing the nail polish section at Wallgreen'sLOL
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uman2's Avatar
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the other hand the residue might preserve the coin lol hu hu hu
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Pertinax's Avatar
United Kingdom
2133 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pertinax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I absolutely wouldn't use acetone in a plastic container and I wouldn't buy it except in a glass bottle.

Acetone is good at dissolving many plastics.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  7:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ceramic or glass would be the number one choice to use with solvents but one type of plastic safe to use with acetone is polypropylene which is recycling code #5. Many plastic bottle caps are also polypropylene but they are typically unlabeled with a recycling code so it is best to stick with clearly marked #5 plastic.

PVC contamination on coins is almost always attributed to the long-term storage of a coin in a soft flip. Short-term storage is ok but it is best to use inert mylar flips(more rigid than PVC, tends to crack if sharply bent). PVC itself is not the problem, it is the plasticizers used to soften the PVC that leach out over time. Chlorinated compounds are offgassed and will react with water vapor to form hydrochloric acid on the surface fo a coin, that is what permanently damages the coin given enough exposure time.
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uman2's Avatar
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok my container has a 2 with the triangle arrows around it is that what you ment when you said 5 or is the 2 acceptable to or should I look for some that has the 5 mark on it? Where might I find acetone in glass jars? localy I dont shop online.
I have one more question for you biokemist6 give me a minute I cut it from my first post but saved it in a word file cause I know its a touchy subject for alot of folks. so ill post it for you to since you seem to be knowledgeable about chemistry just incase it could be helpfull or so I know not to use it. brb
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uman2's Avatar
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have tried to use gun metal bore cleaner on some circulated coins and it seems to do a good job and doesn't affect the brownish blueish toning that is on the coins or what was leftof them on the circulated coins I used. It did make the tones more vibrant. I just put a drop on each side then pat dry with a clean microfiber cotton cloth it does leave a bit of oil on it(petroleum distillate?) but the more you pat it the dryer it looks while still leaving the coins tones a little more vibrant. Sometimes I use a steam cleaner after I let the cleaner soak in a bit being caarefull not to heat the coin up much and patting the one side dry and letting it cool(it doesn't get that hot just a bit warm) before doing the other side and afterwards it looks prefectly dry though less vibrant then leaving a little bit on the coin. It seems to get off some stains but some not so much sometimes. here is what the back of the cleaner says

Nitro solvent is a powerfull bore cleaner for use in firearms barrels and mechanisms removes lead deposits, nitro powder residue and metal fouling. CONTAINS NO ACID. SAFE on all gun metal parts. contains petroleum distillates, turpentine and Amyl ACETATE. I was wondering if this could be a good powerful alternative to just pure acetone any thoughts on this. Just remember I'm testing things on regular pre82 cents that are worn abit from circulation but still have some of the brownish toning. and I dont like how some of the coins come out but would never use on any coin I value or think someone else down the line will value I'm just try to learn the best way in case I come accross so gunky coins I want to clean. I found just the steam cleaner alone is pretty good at removing gunk expeicialy from inbetween the letters with out touching the coin. Has anyone ever talked about cleaning coins with steam cleaners and what was the outcome if so?
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uman2's Avatar
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  7:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok I lie. Sometime I wasnt always so careful when using the steam cleaner and let it get real hot but I only did that on circulated and worn cents. Just to see if it would mess up what was left on the toning of the cent or anything else. I coundt tell any difference but I think maybe it would be noticable under a powerfull microscope but I dont have one.
How hot could steam get. I love the whole 1 degree difference between hot and boliling water but does steam get hotter or does it stay at 212 and below. 212 BABY!
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dei gratia regina's Avatar
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25 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  8:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dei gratia regina to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most pure acetone I have seen comes in a metal can or jug. I have never seen any that is sold in plastic. Nail polish remover is, and so is jewelry cleaner, though. Jewelry cleaner was the first thing I thought of when you said a little basket to put things down into the liquid.

I only use glass when I soak coins.

Why are you trying to clean with so many harmful things? They should not be used on anything of value, but maybe I am missing the point?
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uman2's Avatar
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know I already said that I don't clean any coins that I value or that someone else might value mostly because they don't need it to begin with. I just wanted to test some things like the bore cleaner cause its a form of acetone I think or in other words acetate and its designed not to be harmful to metal or it wouldnt be used in gun barrels.Plus it doesn't seem to me to harm the coin but I'm sure id be told other wise o was hoping biokemist would elaborate but he must be afk or gave up helping me.
Ok the acetone I have is cvs brand 100% acetone but it does have one additional ingredient ... denatoniom benzoate what ever that is so yeah I guess its not 100% acetone but it says it is.

The only reason I started cleaning coins was because a pen leaked in one of my cent jars along time ago and I wanted to clean them it off and I remembered hearing how cleaning your coins can ruin them or the numismatic value and I didnt want to futher ruin any interesting coins that may have been in there even though some where already ruined with ink. And I read alot about the cleaning debate and decided to do my own experiments so I can see the results for myself since I had some coins gunked up with ink.



Is a steam cleaner harmfull do you know have you herd anything about that munismatically speaking? It seems to work the best on grease and sticky stuff anyways!



Where do you get your acetone in glass from id guess a chemist shop or something but is there any other places you can pick some up that the average person wouldnt think of? Do coin shops sell acetone I dont remember ever seeing any in the shops I've been in. I guess not because most advise against it cause it should be done by a pro if determined by such to need it or restoration/preserve it but it might be a good little upsell and a good opportunity to teach a lessen to new collecters about how, why, when or when not to clean a coin or it could be an up sell of such services.


btw... Yes you are missing the point!

I was just thinking nitro solvent might be a more powerful alternative to regular acetone and hoped biokemist would have an opinion.
Edited by uman2
12/19/2013 11:19 pm
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16816 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2013  01:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ok the acetone I have is cvs brand 100% acetone but it does have one additional ingredient ... denatoniom benzoate what ever that is so yeah I guess its not 100% acetone but it says it is.

You can read all about denatonium, and the debate on whether or not it is a significant contaminant, in this recent thread.

Quote:
SAFE on all gun metal parts. contains petroleum distillates, turpentine and Amyl ACETATE.


I just wanted to test some things like the bore cleaner cause its a form of acetone I think or in other words acetate...

Arrrrrgh. That grinding sound you are hearing is the sound of the teeth of all the chemists on this forum...

"Amyl acetate" and "acetone" are two entirely different things. Amyl acetate is an ester of acetic acid (the organic acid found in vinegar); acetone is a ketone. They do have at their core a similar chemical structure (CH3-CO-) hence their similar name, but their properties are completely different.

That being said, amyl acetate is not going to do very much harm to your coins - provided you don't mind them smelling like fake fruit. Amyl acetate is less volatile than acetone, so it will not all rapidly evaporate from the surface of a coin like acetone will. Furthermore, amyl acetate is almost completely insoluble in water (as are most of the other ingredients listed), so no amount of washing your coins will remove it unless you use soap or detergent to remove it.

Because their chemical properties are different, the kinds of things removed by the two solvents will also differ. Amyl acetate is less polar than acetone, so it will be better at dissolving waxy deposits but not as good at dissolving sticky things.

Basically, your gun cleaning solution is designed for cleaning guns, where the main problem being solved is to remove the gunk without using either water or acid, since water and acid are both death to gunmetal. The stuff is designed to not all evaporate off afterwards, to leave a protective layer of solvent behind as a barrier to moisture, to prevent the gunmetal rusting. None of these things are a primary concern with coins, and these days coin collectors don't want thin layers of anything left on their coins, if possible, especially if that thin layer changes the appearance of the coin.

Quote:
Sometimes I use a steam cleaner after I let the cleaner soak in a bit being caarefull not to heat the coin up much and patting the one side dry and letting it cool(it doesn't get that hot just a bit warm) before doing the other side and afterwards it looks prefectly dry though less vibrant then leaving a little bit on the coin. It seems to get off some stains but some not so much sometimes.


Just to see if it would mess up what was left on the toning of the cent or anything else. I coundt tell any difference but I think maybe it would be noticable under a powerfull microscope but I dont have one.
How hot could steam get. I love the whole 1 degree difference between hot and boliling water but does steam get hotter or does it stay at 212 and below.

I can't say I've ever heard of anyone steam-cleaning coins. I don't see why it wouldn't work, though the extra heat might accelerate oxidation reactions on less stable coin surfaces, such as bright shiny copper.

As for your physics question: while steam cannot fall below 212 Fahrenheit without recondensing as liquid water (we usually see the "mist" or "cloud" that results from this - steam above 212 Fahrenheit is transparent and invisible), steam can get much, much hotter than 212 Fahrenheit if you've got the gear to heat it with. You can heat steam up all the way to about 4500 Fahrenheit, beyond which point the water molecules spontaneously disassociate into hydrogen and oxygen atoms.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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