Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer 300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Successful Topic Titles, And What Not To Do

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 1,687Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community

United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  5:44 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi,

Some of you know me, but most don't. So let me give you some of my background. I have worked, in both the Civilian and Military sectors, as an Interviewer for over 20 years. The job title of "Interviewer" is what most people think of as an "Interrogator". It was changed because of all the negative connotations that have accrued to that term.

My training is mostly verbal, and completely non-violent.

I have noticed a number of Titles that ask leading questions. The most common being "Is this counterfeit".

From time to time, I have taught a basic course in Interviewing. For this course, I created a tape ( Yes, it was that long ago!) wherein I asked the same question 4 different ways.

Each group consisted of 10 students. All experienced Law Enforcement Officers.

All the groups were arranged in a semi-circle.

I handed the first member of the first group a One dollar bill, randomly taken from my bill fold; and said: "I think this is Counterfeit". 10 out of 10, after examining the bill, also declared it Counterfeit.

The second group were asked "Is this counterfeit?" Seven out of ten determined it to be so. With the three dissenters being very hesitant to give an opinion.

The third group was asked: "There is something strange about this bill; do you think it cold be counterfeit?". In this group we had an even split.

The last group was just handed the bill and asked to comment on it. Not one said anything about it being counterfeit. Which, of course, it was not.

The second experiment on the tape were the same questions asked of four different groups. The differences were that each member of the group was in his or her own room, and; were told that they were not required to give an answer if they were not comfortable with answering the question. However they could see the anonymous answers of the rest of the group.

In this study, the first three groups were almost unanimous in their opinion that the bill was counterfeit. With this important difference. More than half, of each group, failed to make any response.

The point is that people like to be experts, and; no one wants to be wrong. The safest path is usually to agree with the group or with someone that has "weight" within the group.

Perception IS more important than Reality. Unfortunately.

I have noticed a number of post that use leading questions such as "Is this counterfeit", or "Is this (insert variety)".

In my experience if you ask if something is counterfeit, the likely hood is higher that you will get an affirmative answer. On the other hand if the first person to respond. really is an authority on the subject; and negates the assumption of the OP, then most will jump on board and agree with the expert.

Second; when looking at varieties or errors, most people take bad photographs. And quite frankly some people viewing these boards might have bad eyesight. When I look, I generally don't comment unless I can really see the coin and the detail being discussed. I do see a lot of people, that will chime in with a negative to the original question;even though they can't see the coin well enough to make an informed opinion. When you have a lot of people make uninformed opinions, constantly, it gives them the perceived status of "expert".

Remember no one wants to be wrong. It is easier to say something is not a variety or error; when it can not be proved otherwise on the face of the evidence provided.

I don't think there is any problem when posting a topic and asking the audience what variety or error they think it might be. If of course you provide clear and defined photographs. Assuming, of course it is not an obvious error or variety such as a 1955 LWC DDO.

There is a lot of latitude when you post an error or variety.

But please if you suspect you coin is counterfeit, don't use the word counterfeit in your subject line. You are only giving the audience a preconceived perception. A perception that will have to have an uphill battle from here on out.
Pillar of the Community
amida17's Avatar
United States
4897 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent post with very valid observations!


Quote:
and completely non-violent.


....love it!
Moderator
Learn More...
nickelsearcher's Avatar
United States
15396 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
... and fully support the concepts presented.

David
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
Moderator
Learn More...
jbuck's Avatar
United States
187862 Posts
Pillar of the Community
yhbearcats's Avatar
United States
688 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yhbearcats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent observations and good post
Pillar of the Community
nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you were the teacher, though, authority probably played a large role.

The situation probably turns out differently if a new member on CCF posts a coin for all the established members to look at. Bias is certainly still possible here, but there is probably less desire to impress and agree with the authority figure.
Bedrock of the Community
GR58's Avatar
United States
11951 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting, but I don't totally agree.

I feel the problem is more, figuring out who the real experts are.

Knowing the skill level of the person asking the question and of the person
giving a answer, can have a big impact on how accurate the answer might be.

I once posted a 1921 Peace dollar, that if knew was fake. I did not mention
that in the title or the text, at first. Some members made comments, but not until a expert (SuperDave) pointed out some problems with the coin, did it
come to light that it was fake.

I also posted a 1914 D Lincoln I had just bought. I just asked for opinions and grade. 12 people posted opinions. Of those, 8 thought it was fake, 4 thought it was real. I had it sent into NGC, it came back no problem F-12

Some of these examples support what you are saying, but I feel it is very important to figure out who the real experts are.

I learned when I was in the Air Force. When being assigned to a new facility I would, over time, ask all my coworkers questions that I new the answers to. Then evaluate them by how they answered. By doing this I would learn who the real experts were.

Then even when a expert does give a opinion, it might be a good idea to follow up with some research to verify the answer.

I know when I joined this site, I thought I knew a lot about coins. I made many posts that were wrong. Now it is years later and I am still learning.
and I work in a coin shop.

I do agree that having the right title is very important. In my opinion the title should go right to the point, as to what you want you want from the post.

Then take the experts opinions and follow up with research.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jmkendall-Very good post. Following the "group" has also been a problem on the CCF.
Edited by 1893S
01/02/2014 8:48 pm
Pillar of the Community
Tbone's Avatar
United States
1839 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tbone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I completely agree with the OP. And I'm no expert. I did, however, stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. What a minute, perhaps I shouldn't agree with the OP. I'm so confused
Pillar of the Community
nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  10:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's an idea for our Grading forums:

Posts made in these topics are invisible to everyone except the first poster. They will become visible...
a) at the whim of O.P.
b) after a certain number of replies (maybe 5 in the heavily visited ones, 3 for the low-traffic World Coins)
c) after a certain period of time (maybe a week)

This prevents the bias so commonly seen: you know the type...

Quote:
MS-70 for sure

After a certain number of posts, many people who are not confident in their grading ability (hopefully all of us!) are afraid to go outside the "range" of grades seen and disagree with other members, regardless of accuracy. Making previous posts invisible solves this bias and gives us more accurate grades.
Pillar of the Community
amida17's Avatar
United States
4897 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I always grade the coin before I read any of the posts. Sometimes I am with the group, sometimes I am way off. Who the poster is or who has posted opinions has no effect on the grade I access.
Pillar of the Community
stud722's Avatar
United States
1088 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stud722 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice post and appreciate you posting it. I like the experiment set you performed.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5202 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2014  12:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jack jeckel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is this post leading everyone else to agree with the OP?
Edited by jack jeckel
01/03/2014 12:50 am
Moderator
Learn More...
SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2014  03:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is this post leading everyone else to agree with the OP?





Quote:
Posts made in these topics are invisible to everyone except the first poster. They will become visible...
a) at the whim of O.P.
b) after a certain number of replies (maybe 5 in the heavily visited ones, 3 for the low-traffic World Coins)
c) after a certain period of time (maybe a week)

This prevents the bias so commonly seen: you know the type...


My only concern here is, if you look carefully at how threads proceed, you'll realize that those who physically participate in a given thread only amount to ~10% of those who are reading it. The overwhelming majority of the benefit of our threads goes to lurkers, people who are choosing not to participate. That is part and parcel of an online community.

I'm sure most members post with the idea they they're in the equivalent of an intimate discussion with a few friends; the reality is that every post here is made in front of an auditorium-sized audience. It's something I, as a Moderator, have to very carefully consider with every word I type and why I never post without Previewing and reviewing my words.

Therefore, the content has to appear in its' entirety. It's the only way we can maximize the benefit accruing to the largest percentage of the audience. This is why we've made "PMing" relatively difficult here - we want this stuff in the public eye, not private.

It is our hope and belief that, in any given thread, there will be a sufficient number of objective thinkers to offset jmkendall's very valid points - he paints a perfectly-accurate image of how these things go in threads here. However, most of these threads are being posted by folks who are genuinely worried that they've just thrown away money, and they're not really worrying about psychological subtleties at that point.

It is therefore our job, as contributing members, to very carefully consider what we're seeing and render the most objective judgement possible based only on the physical evidence presented. That's what numismatics is about.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2014  10:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sort of the same thing we had in Psychology 101. Ten people in a circle. Whispered a story to the fitst one and had it repeated to the next and next. At the end, completely different story. Good story here though. Shows what people are like.
Studies in Pshchology are educational and this original post is a good example. I always like the posts that start of with something like what is the date on this coin and by the tenth reply we are talking about horse racing or the price of houses.
  Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 1,687Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.52 seconds to rattle this change. Forums