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21st Year Chinese 1 Yuan. Fake?

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CL_'s Avatar
United States
98 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2014  1:30 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CL_ to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
First post here Anyway, I purchased this coin while I was in Beijing a few years ago from the gift shop inside a museum for 100 yuan (about $16 at the time.) Despite the fact that it was in the museum, I still have my reservations about its authenticity. Unfortunately I do not own a digital scale to see if it weighs the correct 26.7 grams.

I was curious if anyone could give me more information about this coin, or if there were any tels from the pictures that it is not authentic.

21st-Year-Chinese-1-Yuan.-Fake?
The edge is not copper-colored as it appears in this picture:
21st-Year-Chinese-1-Yuan.-Fake? 21st-Year-Chinese-1-Yuan.-Fake?

Thanks in advance guys!
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thq's Avatar
United States
3343 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2014  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't like the pimples I see on his face. I think it's a fake, though it's a pretty good one.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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CL_'s Avatar
United States
98 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2014  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CL_ to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That stood out to me too. Some of the reeding on the edge overlaps as well so I'm pretty sure it's a fake too.
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United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  03:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a very obvious modern fantasy coin.
Edited by Numismat
01/09/2014 03:44 am
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16817 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reverse rim is the main giveaway to me; the "wire rim" is a classic symptom of being forced through a ring die.

Secondly, of course, is the non-existence of this particular coin in the catalogues. Specifically, this coin is a "mule"; the obverse is dated Year 21, but the "junk dollars" issued in Year 21 are all supposed to be the rays-and-birds variety; all coins with this plain-sky reverse design should be dated Year 22 or 23. The fake-makers frequently make "mules"; partly it is laziness in not matching up the dies properly, partly it is in the hope that someone who knows this coin "should not exist" will think it is therefore a rare pattern or mint error.

If you want some evidence, here's an easy one: Magnetics. A simple fridge magnet will tell you if it's steel or not; many of the cheaper copies are steel. If you have one of those super-powerful rare earth magnets, you can compare the reaction it gives to your coin with the reaction given by a dollar-sized coin you know to be solid silver.

Quote:
Despite the fact that it was in the museum, I still have my reservations about its authenticity

It shouldn't surprise you at all; rather, I would say, "because it was sold in a museum, I assume it's a replica". Museums rarely sell genuine antiques or antiquities, and very commonly sell replicas and reproductions. Museums in the West will likely tell you they are reproductions when they sell them to you, museums elsewhere in the world are less likely.

No Chinese law was broken in selling it to you; it is perfectly legal in mainland China to make and sell counterfeit pre-Communist coins.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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mlov's Avatar
United States
156 Posts
 Posted 01/11/2014  10:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mlov to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Somebody over at Coin Talk has a Year 21 "Birds over Junk" for sale. NGC slab, MS63.

He cherrypicked it out of a world-coin junk silver bin at his local coin shop. Paid 10 USD for it(!) I think I remember him saying...


Edited by mlov
01/11/2014 10:49 am
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2014  12:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would like to see that one. Perhaps NGC has added another slabbed forgery to their list of errors.
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United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2014  02:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the link swamperbob: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1932-China-...047675.l2557

He posted it on the forum before sending to NGC and it was pretty much unanimously agreed the coin is legit. I was one of the strongest believers after seeing so many various types of fakes of this coin.
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Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2014  03:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin posted on cointalk is genuine as far as I am concerned. Rarely happens but there is no reason why it can't happen.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2014  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That coin looks fine to me. Who has expressed the opinion that it is fake?
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United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2014  01:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't recall anyone saying it was fake, other than a couple people expressing concerns or caution.
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