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 Replies: 12 / Views: 3,484 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Another firm is taking on a similar function in the coin market to CAC. http://www.pqapproved.com/Premium Quality by Barry Stupler with Donald Ketterling grading. What do you make of this? I just am not seeing how this will affect the little guys or the average coin collectors but I'm sure will do pretty well for ultra high end coins. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440Edited by westcoin
01/25/2014 01:46 am
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
From what I understand theyve been doing that with their own inventory for quite some time that the overall market hasnt deemed worthy of a premium on resale. I believe allowing submissions is new, but theyre basically trying to directly compete with CAC. CAC backs their coins with their own money, I couldnt find anything on the PQ website indicating they do the same.
They could have attempted to carve out a niche market if they did ANACS and ICG coins, but they only do PCGS and NGC coins and I dont see their opinion overtaking CACs or even significantly affecting CAC submissions. I wouldnt be the least bit shocked if some more expensive CAC rejects started ending up being submitted there
Edited by basebal21
01/25/2014 12:50 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
9792 Posts |
Yep they directly say they are going after CAC as a competitive service, their examples show they are not "PQing" CAC coins but that their PQ standards are supposedly higher than the CAC ratings. Hmmm  Quote:
I wouldnt be the least bit shocked if some more expensive CAC rejects started ending up being submitted there According to their example page they won't make the PQ grade just because they have been CAC'd.  PQ  CAC It looks like a battle is beginning, but CAC does stand behind their stickers with $$$ and has been doing this game longer, so I'll take a wait and see attitude, though I'd probably buy either PQ or CAC coins over non stickered coins, I won't spend my own money with either of them through submissions to them. Learn to grade, learn how the market grades, learn what constitutes a high end coin on your own, and you'll do just fine - PROOF? Look at the Eric P. Newman Collection sale results he turned $7500 into +$25 million by doing his research and only getting the best coins he could find, then holding them for a long time, seems to be the best way to collect, with an eye on best return for your money. I say collect what you want as long as you enjoy it and your collection brings you joy.  "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440Edited by westcoin
01/25/2014 01:51 am
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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PQing" CAC coins but that their PQ standards are supposedly higher than the CAC ratings. Definitely a great marketing line, but I find that hard to believe. JA at CAC has a resume thats really hard to compete with. Id be curious to see how many of their PQ coins from their inventory actually ended up getting a CAC sticker over the years. Their requirements strike me as a little odd too. Having to have an excellent strike for example. So does that automatically eliminate a lot of older coins? Theres plenty of coins with fantastic eye appeal that didnt have the greatest strike. One of my favorite large cents actually is a xf booby head that cac stickered and the stars are pretty weakly struck. It really gives the head and the center of the design the appearance of jumping off the coin at you which I love. If they wouldnt sticker that because of the strike around the edge theyre going to be passing over a lot of coins with great eye appeal. I really do think they made a mistake going after CAC like that. Like the TPGs, reputations are built off of their work with high end coins. I just dont see anyone saying I'm going to send my 10k+ coin there instead of CAC. If CAC already rejected it however..... Quote:
but CAC does stand behind their stickers with $$$ Thats the big thing for me. If you dont back your opinion with money its not really worthy of someone else paying for a sticker. I understand building the capital for that is difficult, but at the end of the day that money backing it is part of what gives it value. If your competitor with a strong reputation does that you absolutely need to if you want to compete against them. If I'm not mistaken even Rick Snow backs his photo seal stickers with money giving that actual value in the market place. If I like a PQ stickered coin I wouldnt not buy it because of that, but like you I wont be sending them anything and probably wouldnt even pay a premium for it. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
Pretty soon there will be all kinds of stickers on your slabs to make you want to own the coin, what I've noticed is that very few collectors in my area could care less. I see a lot of CAC stickered coins sitting in dealers cases month after month because no one will pay the premium. Either the coin is stickered MS63 (as an example) or it is a MS64 plain and simple, but you still have to take that opinion with a grain of salt. If two parties examine this coin an agree to a higher or lower price for the coin, fine. For sight unseen trading their could be a slight difference in perception of the coin I suppose. A CAC sticker is nothing more than an opinion, which is what a PQ sticker will become, an opinion. Opinions are like xxx's everyone has one. Learn how to grade yourself. This is paramount.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
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I see a lot of CAC stickered coins sitting in dealers cases month after month because no one will pay the premium. According to CAC their sticker should not indicate a premium price on the coin, only a top end for the grade assigned. Too many dealers and collectors believe that the CAC sticker is for increasing the price, when in reality it is only letting you know that CAC believes the grading company din't foul up when grading that particular coin. PQ is similar but I'm thinking they might actually bring a premium on top end coins. I don't really care one way or another, but for those that don't care to learn about grading coins, then they should only be buying stickered coins in slabs, let the more knowledgable collectors find the bargins out there!  "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
Why CAC would say their sticker should not indicate a premium price is hooey, that's why they are in business? I've read their ads and again I say hooey! Grade equals $$$, hence CAC+grade should equal more$$$...A grade is meant to justify a price. Otherwise why would you grade 60, 61, 62, etc., you could as in the "old days" just say uncirculated and then haggle when you buy or sell.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5394 Posts |
the whole grading /slabbing game is a joke and this includes the CAC , WINGS stickermania. More money has been made by the graders than the coin business could ever dream of making. Advanced Collectors and Veteran Dealers know how to grade and what a good coin should look like and would Never buy the "HOLDER" over the actual coin. IMHO
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
So newer collectors are on their own, right?
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9864 Posts |
Collectors would be best served by a  sticker service, but there's no money in that. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5394 Posts |
@ SD no , newer collectors are not on their own. They owe it to themselves to get educated. The saying of " buy the book not the coin" first is oh so true! Also attending coin shows , joining the ANA or even your local coin club are all helpful to a newbie. I am totally amazed at people who start throwing thousands at a hobby they undersatand so little about, truly astonishing !! |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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They owe it to themselves to get educated. They do and should but part of that is experience. The only way to get educated/experience buying coins is to actually buy them. Slabs are a great tool that help keep dealers from praying on the uninformed. While you should do research before buying anything you shouldnt be expected spend months/years and be an above average grader before making the first purchase. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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While you should do research before buying anything you shouldnt be expected spend months/years and be an above average grader before making the first purchase There first purchase? No, as you say they need to develop some experience. Their first EXPENSIVE purchase, Yes. (What is expensive varies from person to person but I think a good rule of thumb would be that if the amount is more than you can just write off without a major concern, then it's expensive.) |
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Replies: 12 / Views: 3,484 |
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Posted 01/25/2014 01:45 am
