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 Replies: 54 / Views: 6,959 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Everything is kind of weird with this transaction, ICCS with the odd grading and comment boldly a harsh cleaned, a reputable dealer selling an obvious problem coin, and a buyer willing to offer a more than decent price on it. In a PCGS or NGC holders coins with no grades usually equals no bids.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1192 Posts |
The buyer is probably a newbie who saw the "MS-64" grade, looked it up in the price guide, offered 25% below the trend price, and was happy to win it. Until they realize how much a harsh cleaning reduces a coin's value. It will be some very expensive tuition for the buyer when they go to sell that coin down the road.
If I were to lay blame in this pretty obvious case of a buyer getting taken to the cleaners (put not intended), I'd pin it at:
10% on ICCS for giving a numerical grade to a details coin, which can easily mislead a newbie.
10% on the dealer for listing it without a picture of the whole certificate visible + stating "cleaned" rather than "harshly cleaned" (as it says on the cert) in the description.
80% on the buyer for not doing their homework before laying down money on a 4-figure coin purchase.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
I guess the only good thing in this transaction is it's ebay, the buyer can ask for a refund as it is incorrectly advertised |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2427 Posts |
Although pretty reputable I would put 90 % of the blame on the Coin Cabinet.
Edited by darryldarryl
02/08/2014 8:31 pm
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Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
Harsh words are easily flung behind the computer screen... I am not going to sit here and watch one of Canada's best dealers deal with undeserved criticism. The Coin Cabinet is one of most honest dealers I have encountered across the country in the past decade. Brian and Geoff are always good on their word, and if the customer is not happy with the coin, I imagine that they'll deal with it in a professional manner. You have to remember that they are a coin shop, they are not professional graders and they, pretty much like most other dealers in Canada, take ICCS certified coins at face value... How is it incorrectly advertised? The description plainly states: Quote:
Coin is shown in scan, indicates cleaned on holder. It was a Buy-it-now or Best Offer listing... the first move is made by the buyer, not the seller. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
02/10/2014 1:52 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9866 Posts |
The first move was by the seller IMO, offering a problem coin at full Trends BIN, an open invitation to a buyer who lacks knowledge.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2427 Posts |
@ SPP... Undeserved criticism?...Seriously?
I also have respect for Canada's big dealers but lets be realistic can we? Someone got hosed here really bad and it wasnt the seller.
If someone in your family bought this coin off this seller/dealer as a gift for you then you would be screaming bloody murder.
SPP you have a good head on shoulders and I believe comments here upset or irk you because you have some type of a working/business relationship with the seller.
I think if we did a show of hands on this one then you may be alone my friend.
Anyway, lets put this behind us as you are entitled to your opinions as I am to my own.
Edited by darryldarryl
02/10/2014 3:19 pm
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
What makes you think this coin belonged to the dealer? They buy and sell coins, as well as offer coins from collectors on consignment, with the collectors citing the reserve price. As I stated, if the buyer has a problem with the purchase, once the coin is in hand, they are lucky to have bought it from the Bells, because there is always an open door to resolve a problem. I can think of a LOT of dealers in Canada at coins stores, coin shows and online stores, where the same statement can not be made...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2427 Posts |
It doesn't matter who the coin belongs to. The only thing that matters is who's name is listed as the seller of the coin.
Personally if I were a large dealer I wouldnt have such a coin associated with my name/company.
I'm in business for myself and I understand what it is you have to do to make money and
sometimes lines are crossed this being one of them.
Lets move on please.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
I have to side with SPP-Ott on this one.
We're talking about a 'business' selling a 'third party graded' coin.
What's the big issue?
It was not sugar-coated.
The ad placed stated clearly what was on the ICCS flip.
Maybe the dealer wasn't 100% confident in this coin's grade but again I say, the seller didn't do anything wrong.
For all of the reponders saying "I would have never sold or even had this coin in my inventorey if I was in business" probably have NEVER been self-employed anyways.
Sometimes as a business owner you have to sell a product you're not 100% entirely happy with.
That's the reality of it.
The seller didn't do anything wrong, legally or ethically.
Also regarding the price...who cares how much the seller asks for it?
It's the seller's business, not ours.
The buyer didn't have to pay 75% of trends, but he did and was HIS decision.
Let's stick to criticising 'asyn's' overgrading, this case is way off base.
Edited by doubleeagle59
02/10/2014 9:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
972 Posts |
I can't understand how ICCS could give MS64 to a harshly cleaned coin.  Edited by wireman09
02/11/2014 05:52 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1472 Posts |
Honestly, neither seller or buyer created the problem. How can you have a MS coin that was harshly cleaned?  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2427 Posts |
"Maybe the dealer wasn't 100% confident in this coin's grade but again I say, the seller didn't do anything wrong."
Come on who are you kidding? This is one of Canada's premier dealers and to say "maybe they were'nt confident" is laughable to say the least!
I will agree with you doubleagle59 that the seller didnt do anything wrong legally or ethically however it was very sleezy.
"For all of the reponders saying "I would have never sold or even had this coin in my inventorey if I was in business" probably have NEVER been self-employed anyways."
I am guessing this was directed to myself? I've been in business for myself (non coin related) for 18 years and I'm doing just fine, thanks for asking.
"Let's stick to criticising 'asyn's' overgrading, this case is way off base."
Lets divert any attention from this thread and attack asyn...well done my friend well done. This case is way off base.
I will ask again if we could please move away from this thread as there are better things we can discuss.
Edited by darryldarryl
02/11/2014 09:59 am
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Valued Member
United States
319 Posts |
Quote:
The ad placed stated clearly what was on the ICCS flip. Actually, no it doesn't. The ad copy says cleaned, the holder says harshly cleaned. Not clear at all. |
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Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts |
 with SPP and Double..... Lets all be honest here.. If the buyer is unhappy then I will say that ICCS should be held liable on this one..NOT the seller... I'm sure the buyer was not blind and could also read what he holder said.. The pic was very clear and the words Harshly Cleaned also were very clear....... Blame ICCS and make them liable on their grade..We will see if they stand behind it or not... |
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Replies: 54 / Views: 6,959 |
First Page
Posted 02/08/2014 4:37 pm
