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 Replies: 9 / Views: 5,099 |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1006 Posts |
The decimal thread of the next million dollar coin got me thinking about coins which shouldn't exist and thought about the 1919 and 1920 Half Sovereigns. The dies were confirmed to have been made and struck over 50000 coins. They have allegedly been sighted (I believe in the UK) but haven't been confirmed. Just wondering if this is still the case, anyone spotted one or thoughts on the topic?
P.s. if anyone could also tell the story of the 1920-S Sovereign that'd be great to. Just wondering why only 3 are known to exist and not more?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
541 Posts |
If a 1919 or 1920 half sovereign does exist, then it is either a pattern or more likely, a restrike.
Based in mintages and current survival counts and release locations, the coins struck in 1919 and 1920 were struck from 1915 dies.
From 1920 Australian banks were no longer honouring English notes in exchange for gold reducing demand considerably. This led the Commonwealth Bank (the Sydney mint's main client) to have a huge surplus of gold in 1920 and stopped ordering gold until 1925 when Australia returned to the gold standard. In anticipation of the new found demand for gold, the Sydney mint produced huge numbers of sovereigns in 1925 but demand wasn't as high as expected and by November 1925 demand had slowed to a near halt with the Commonwealth Bank not ordering any more sovereigns and so in 1926 they melted all the remaining gold sovereigns including the entire 1926 mintage except what was struck on the final day before closing the mint.
Only sovereigns purchased by other clients of the Sydney mint from 1920-24 would ever have seen the light of day, even by 1924 they still had a huge surplus of earlier dated sovereigns (pre-1920) so even in 1920 it was extremely unlikely you'd get a 1920 dated sovereign. It is doubtful that more than a few hundred sovereigns dated 1920-24 ever left the Sydney mint.
Edited by wwwww
02/11/2014 5:43 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
1006 Posts |
Thank you wwwww very informative just another question is would the clients have been able to purchase the 1919 or 1920 half sovereign as then it would explain how they could have gotten out? By the way so back in those days people could purchase coins from the mint's stockpile?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
541 Posts |
The final two paragraphs refered only to the Sydney mint (in reference to the scarcity of the 1920-S).
In general the mints' clients were banks/foreign mints/etc but you could exchange banknotes for gold sovereigns at the Commonwealth Bank. They didn't mint 1919 and 1920 dated half sovereigns - the half sovereigns they minted that year were most likely dated 1915.
Edited by wwwww
02/11/2014 7:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
WWWW
My understanding of that period is different to yours. From 1915 on they no longer honoured the "payable on demand" part of the banknote. All the gold coins were sent to pay for imports/the war/debts. For example lots of 1915 halves turned up in the vaults of Albania in the 1980s having being used to pay for food for the Dardenelles Campaign.
Reportedly our sovereigns were mostly sent to London, they promptly melted them. Australia had debts to England and England had debts to America, so presumably our gold ended up in America (as bars). America probably later used much of that gold to pay countries like France via the Gold Window until Nixon closed it.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1006 Posts |
Haha whoops sorry wwwww seemed to slip my mind  |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
541 Posts |
Quote:
WWWW
My understanding of that period is different to yours. From 1915 on they no longer honoured the "payable on demand" part of the banknote. All the gold coins were sent to pay for imports/the war/debts. For example lots of 1915 halves turned up in the vaults of Albania in the 1980s having being used to pay for food for the Dardenelles Campaign.
Reportedly our sovereigns were mostly sent to London, they promptly melted them. Australia had debts to England and England had debts to America, so presumably our gold ended up in America (as bars). America probably later used much of that gold to pay countries like France via the Gold Window until Nixon closed it. That makes more sense as to what happened to the sovereigns at the Sydney mint but the Commonwealth Bank was still honouring Australian notes in exchange for gold. They only stopped honouring British notes as the UK had an export embargo on gold so the bank could no longer exchange these notes for gold. Here's a good article on the banking system of the day: http://ideas.repec.org/p/auu/wpaper/003.html |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2180 Posts |
Not sure if you got the most recent issue of the Australasian Coin and Banknote magazine oh my florin, but there was some mention of the 1920-S sovereign. I think it said all the known examples were struck from rusty dies which was interesting.
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New Member
Australia
9 Posts |
The half sovereigns struck at the Perth Mint in 1919 and 1920 were definitely struck using 1918 dated reverse dies - The Royal Mint archival records show that they didn't ever receive reverse dies dated 1919 or 1920. While the UK dealer that reported seeing a 1919-P half sovereign has decades of experience and his report is not to be taken lightly, the fact that no such coin could have been struck means that he may have been mistaken, saw a counterfeit or there is some other explanation. There is no way a 1919 or 1920 dated ( Perth Mint) half sovereign could exist, as they just didn't have the dies. The full story behind the rarity and existence of the 1920 Sydney has just been published for the first time in a Knightsbridge auction catalogue, for the George collection of sovereigns coming up in London in a few weeks time. Full details are now available! Hopefully this is re-published in other avenues as it is a great story. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1041 Posts |
hi Andrew p crellin
welcome good to see you here on CCF I have a few old posts here you can help me with latter
shane
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Replies: 9 / Views: 5,099 |
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Posted 02/11/2014 4:50 pm
