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Another Heritage Rip, And Another Long Nock

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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2007  2:27 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I generally post my new acquisitions in the Coin Grading Forum, but there's a lesson to this one which warrants a Main Forum topic.

If you want a nice coin, at a good price, one which suits your tastes and your collection, there are a few ways to go about it. You can form a relationship with a dealer whom you trust, and this dealer will fill your want list coins as he finds them. It's safe, reliable, involves relatively little work on your end, and you know that you're likely to get the coin you want at the price you want. Generally speaking, this will be the most expensive way to buy coins, because your dealer has to have his margin, but it's the most reliable.

Or, you can prowl the dealers, shows, flea markets and such, looking for the coins you want in the grade you desire, and haggle out the price you're interested in paying. This method involves a lot more work on your part - you have to become knowledgeable about the coins which interest you, able to grade, attribute, and properly value them. However, doing it this way has the advantage of putting the coin in your hand before you purchase it, so you can take your acquired knowledge and be absolutely sure that the coin you hold is the one you want. The possibility exists to get some pretty good deals this way, based on the dealer's knowledge or lack thereof, and his need to have cash flow.

Or, you can play the lottery. There are fine, reputable dealers selling coins online. There are also less-reputable dealers. They sell in varying venues, and the coins are accompanied by photographs of varying quality. Not only is this the riskiest way to fill your collection, it's also the most knowledge-intensive. As I mentioned above, first, you have to know the coin. Second, you have to understand the photographic process to the extent of being able to form judgments based on incomplete information - out of focus pics, improperly lit pics, and even deliberately doctored pics. If you're going to shop this way, it's imperative that you do all of your homework, or you're going to get burned. Sometimes you get burned anyways.

The upside to playing the lottery is, occasionally you're going to hit the jackpot. There are great deals to be had by being in the right place at the right time. And that brings me to today's coin, an 1878-P Morgan dollar, a Long Nock variety attributed as VAM-83. This variety is characterized first by the extended arrow shaft, which is where the Long Nock name comes from. There are a few such Long Nock VAM's, some of which I've posted here before. This particular variety has had the first 8 in the date punched too low on the die, making it noticeably lower than the surrounding letters.

A few days ago, I found one of these, unattributed, in a PCGS MS63 holder listed as a lot at a Heritage Tuesday Internet Coin Auction. PCGS does not attribute this VAM; there are currently 14 in NGC MS63 slabs, and only three on MS64 slabs, one of which is PL. I was in the right place at the right time with the right knowledge, when apparently nobody else was, and I was able to acquire this coin at absolutely no premium over a non-variety example. The premium for this VAM isn't huge, but it does exist and I suspect this coin would have sold for $125 or better in an attributed slab instead of the $83 it cost me. In the case of this specific VAM, it's nothing I'd call "winning the lottery." The next one you see me post here will be a slightly different story.

So, you pays your monies and you takes your chances. This is where I like to live in numismatics, out on the edge where the risk of failure is equal to the risk of success. But my way is only one of a few "good" ways to do it. It's your choice.

Oh, yeah. The coin:

Another-Heritage-Rip,-And-Another-Long-Nock

Another-Heritage-Rip,-And-Another-Long-Nock
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2007  2:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Added note: I am aware of the location of another one of these in an ICG MS65 slab. It may or may not cross, but if it does, it's in sole possession of Top Pop for this VAM. Price is commensurate with an MS65 1878-P 7TF. Contact me if you're interested.
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Amazon99's Avatar
United States
2443 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2007  2:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Amazon99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin, great find. Good story.
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USArmyParatrooper's Avatar
United States
1283 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2007  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USArmyParatrooper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great story! Attributions seem like a fascinating world that requires a huge amount of study.

As a collector I would never pay a premium for an attributed coin. The small differences, like a slight difference on a number or letter, don't do anything for me.

But I definitely respect the art and I definitely respect those that follow it. My dealer says he knows a couple people who will attend a show just to find undiscovered attributed coins. Apparently they typically make at least a couple hundred per show on that alone.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2007  11:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Honestly, Trooper, it's the details which drive me in this hobby. I derive great satisfaction from creating something which was not there yesterday. The vast quantity of Morgan dollars on the market, and the equally vast numbers of their varieties, are to me like standing in the surf when big stripers are hitting anything you throw at them.

Whether or not these VAM's have greater value to others, or not, is only of consequence to me in that ripping and flipping them for profit allows me to find and buy more. The only problem is persuading myself to let these little beauties out of my grasp.

It's a wonderful hobby indeed, when people like you and I, with entirely different directions, can have equal amounts of fun and take equal enjoyment in each other's achievements.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2007  01:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
just wait till I get some money, I am going 1921 crazy!!!
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2007  09:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
just wait till I get some money, I am going 1921 crazy!!!




I won't be able to touch your set, Bryan. It's a passing fad for me - I'm going to rip 'em and flip 'em once the set is complete.
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
United States
2335 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2007  11:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There's nothing quite like the thrill of seeing value over and above the market cost of an item. It definitely takes some specialized knowledge, but it's worth the effort to get that knowledge.
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19930 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2007  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice deal! Beautiful toning on the reverse.
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hunter20ga's Avatar
United States
1173 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2007  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hunter20ga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for sharing, Dave. Gives me something to think about....
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atlashealth's Avatar
United States
1691 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2007  10:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add atlashealth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gorgeous coin and great advise for collectors...I see the long nock and also some reverse die cracks along the UNITED & AMERICA letters...is that characteristic of this VAM?
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