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1904-O VAM-4B "Rusty Fish Hook"

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 2,203Next Topic  
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cdnmace's Avatar
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2014  6:29 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add cdnmace to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello All,

Question: Is it possible to have every single, solitary, no-doubt-about-it attribute of the 04-O 4B RFH, except the OLL pitting?

Because that is exactly what I have. The 'right' clashed, lips, cap, neck, leaf; the reverse rim Cud, the works... everything. But, no shred of evidence of pitting, whatsoever.

Thanks!
Edited by cdnmace
03/27/2014 6:46 pm
Valued Member
AU90o's Avatar
United States
199 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2014  7:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AU90o to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Reverse rim Cud? I think you meant Obverse rim Cud.

The answer to your question is No. It is not possible.
You might want to double check the coin versus VAM-35A or 35B.
Valued Member
cdnmace's Avatar
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2014  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cdnmace to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your reply, AU90o...

Indeed I did mean obverse. Hopefully that typo doesn't throw off the entire thread?! lol ;-)

35A is a much closer match, not exact either; but close enough for me. 35A Old was where I was spinning my wheels on my home-made list. Omitted 35A.

Much appreciated!

Cheers.

Pillar of the Community
Chute72's Avatar
United States
1314 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2014  6:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The phrase "close enough" strikes me as unsettling. Let's try one moe and see if we can get it exactly. Look at VAM 39A.
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7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2014  12:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please show us some pictures if you can. This sounds interesting but I can't figure out anything without seeing what you have.

The attributes listed on the VAM page have to match everything on your coin for the most part, excluding clashes with no letter transfer & Polishing, because they are die state issues, but they are usually noted on the VAM page and sometimes broken into sub catergories like the VAM 4A & 4B.

The VAM 4A is a no clash variety with double date and 4B is the same as 4A but also has the letter clashes.

Pitting is also a die state issue and it is very well possible the mint could have made some coins with the dies for the VAM 4B before they were put to the side (the dies were likely replaced because the workers noticed the die clashes). The reverse die ended up rusting causing the pitting. Then they were later brought back out (maybe by a different mint worker) and used again to make the 4B coins with the pitting. Then at some point the clashing was noticed again so the mint workers polished the dies making what is listed as the VAM 4A.

That would make the VAM 4A actually the VAM after VAM 4B and what you are reporting to have as the actual VAM 4A.

It all makes sense because you can see that VAM 4A is a polished clashed variety. Now we just need to confirm you actually have the VAM 4B with no rust/pitting. If you have the die polish lines in the bow area that would be a good way to confirm it without pictures but even those can change with the die state.

If you have a no pitting example of the VAM 4B that would be a pretty cool find in my opinion.

Kris
Edited by 7TF
03/31/2014 02:44 am
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7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2014  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am still very interested in hearing more about this coin. I hope you still have it cdnmace.
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United States
149 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2014  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add messydesk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How do the rest of the reverse diagnostics look, such as polishing lines and clash positions?
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7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2014  05:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I didn't realize the 35A had a Cud on the rim too, but they are not in the same spot exactly. So the OP coin could be the VAM 35A.

The coin at the bottom of the VAM 4A page has deep mirror looking fields, but appears to have a cleaned up clashing event.

The only problem I am having with my original scenario is the rim Cud should be on the 4A coins if they came after the 4B, if this is correct (which I am sure it is) my whole theory goes out the window, But I have another.

The 4A does appear to have been clashed and then cleaned up, so there should be a die state before 4A and it would be a single clash and would look much like the VAM 4B, but would only have one clash event (One clash line on the reverse and letter clash on obv.) and could possibly even not have pitting...

I can't tell if the coin on the page was double clashed and the clean up removed most of the second clash event or if it is only a single clash version. I am really thinking the VAM 4A is just a cleaned up single clash now though.

I hope that all makes sense.

It has been fun just thinking about how it could have happened.

Kris
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cdnmace's Avatar
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 04/08/2014  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cdnmace to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Kris,

Thanks for the feedback and food-for-thought (Here and on the other topic). But I actually don't have it anymore. It went in a cash and coin swap/sale for an 1893-P.

I do know the person who conducted the trade with me, so I'll ask them if they'd shoot me over some photos.

Cheers.

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7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 04/15/2014  5:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It was probably just the 35A anyway. It just got me interested when I started thinking about how it could have occured.

Kris
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