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Need Advice On Inherited Coins, Please

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trdhrdr007's Avatar
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 Posted 04/26/2014  07:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If your Uncle was buying from a coin dealer it's entirely possible he was paying high retail. From what you have said about the 1892-CC that definitely seems to be the case.
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 Posted 04/26/2014  09:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chasingtailbar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A couple things...

#1. An unwillingness to trust major coin auctioneers will cost you a dump trucks' worth of money over time if there are more investment-grade coins like that '92-CC. IE, I would have given you $1800 off ebay for that coin, meaning your net would have been closer to $1750. Heritage could have probably netted you around the same at 95% of hammer. However, they do have a minimum consignment value of $5k, so they won't do business with you if it's under $5k total. I'd be more inclined to use GreatCollections, honestly... They net good prices and you'll end up with more money in your pocket. Of course, if you have an ultra-valuable ($10k+) coin, I'd still send that to HA.com. It's not a bad idea to list high-value coins on ebay given their fees are capped at $250 per transaction, just make sure you know what it's worth before you list it, and factor in ebay's costs into your final sale price. Don't forget, paypal fees are not capped. Also keep #7 in mind when considering listing a high-value coin on ebay.

#2. Take your time selling. This has already been said before, but worth restating. Selling high-quality coins is often about finding the right buyer for your coin, not selling it at the right price. Unless you're asking a ridiculous premium over bid/book, you can usually move most coins for the price you want in 30 days. I do a lot of business just on ebay, buying and flipping coins, by winning them at auction and watching BIN's, then grading the coins, turning around and selling them. Last year, I netted $10k doing this. Patience is a virtue, especially in numismatics. The easiest way to make money in coins and most other businesses is exploiting others impatience.

#3. Where are you located? Sitting down with somebody who knows their stuff and doesn't want/need to make money off you could be highly beneficial. I am sure there are members here who will extend their services to you just for the pleasure of checking out the collection. I've done this before elsewhere, and was happy to get a consignment out of the deal. I only made a few hundred bucks on a collection worth $15k+, but it was a pleasure to help somebody out during a tough time in their life and ensure they weren't ripped off during the process of dispensing their coins. I believe many numismatists share this sentiment and would gladly help you out for little or no profit.

#4. Dealer buybacks... ouch. I wouldn't bother going this route unless you just want to quickly and easily dispose of the collection. Dealer overhead generally means they need to buy at 60%-70% of retail if they have a storefront, which results in you leaving a ton of money on the table. Some dealers have fantastic buyback programs, but those dealers are likely to be mostly on the show circuit, not local, so I doubt that you have any close to you. Once again, if we know where you are, we may be able to send you to somebody who can help.

#5. Before you do any of the above, create an inventory of everything. List date, denomination and mintmark in a spreadsheet so you know what you have. Unscrupulous individuals will take advantage of you if they can, and defending yourself against individuals like that is of utmost importance.

#6. Cash is king. If this is a large collection worth $10k+, it's beneficial to find somebody who will deal in cash. While you'll take a slight haircut in value when you insist on a cash transaction, it can save you a lot of money in terms of reporting income, assuming that a lot of the costs of these coins are not documented properly. I dispensed of a collection of mostly junk silver worth about $23k a few months ago, and since the purchase prices weren't documented, I found a cash buyer and probably saved the individual whom I sold the coins for around $7k in taxes, while only losing about $500 for doing a cash deal. In the long run, this is far more cost effective.

#7. Kind of related to #6. Remember that if you hit certain thresholds, PayPal is forced to issue you a tax form (6050W) under certain circumstances. Per their website, "PayPal is required to report gross payments received for sellers who receive over $20,000 in gross payment volume AND over 200 separate payments in a calendar year." The issue here is that if you're not the owner of the coins and don't document the consignment agreement properly, you will get stuck with the tax bill for the sale of those coins. So once again, cash saves you a lotta trouble.

If you have any questions specific to the selling-side of the hobby, feel free to drop me a line. I'm not a dealer, but still know a ton about it thanks to dipping my toes in the water on a regular basis. Best of luck to you.
Edited by chasingtailbar
04/26/2014 09:18 am
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Cruisinfusion's Avatar
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 Posted 04/26/2014  11:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cruisinfusion to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Chasing, you wrote a book!
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 04/26/2014  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Chasing, you wrote a book!


One worth reading. Chasingtailbar, if you don't mind I'm going to see about integrating your post into the "What to do if you've inherited a coin collection" thread.
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 Posted 04/26/2014  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chasingtailbar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Go for it.
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52Raymo's Avatar
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8518 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2014  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ssuperddave, so are you saying I could sell the 1892 CC Morgan for 2200.00 or that's what a dealer sells it for? My apologies for being completely clueless to all this.
I sold it last night for 1800.00 after reducing price on ebay. ebay took their 10% and Paypal took their 3%--- leaving a sale profit of 1560 after paying shipping this morning. However looking at the purchase price on receipt of $2670.00-- it's discouraging. I had a "buy it now" for 2400.00 at first and had 2 watchers when the auction ended. So I reduced to 2300. Then again to 2000. Down to 1800.00- within 30 minutes it sold at that price. Almost a 1200.00 loss.

You know you can do a "buy it now or best offer" listing on ebay also. You could have listed it at 2400 and had offers coming in.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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 Posted 04/26/2014  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chasingtailbar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The '92-CC Looks pretty PQ to me, I bet it would have sold within a week or so at $2200.

Bet it was bought by a dealer and will be flipped for a nice profit... we might even see it on ebay again soon. I'm kinda irritated I didn't see it and buy it lol. It was only up for about 25 minutes at that price.
Edited by chasingtailbar
04/26/2014 1:17 pm
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NathanASE's Avatar
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 Posted 04/26/2014  1:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NathanASE to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
and also, that was an excellent, well thought out post chasingtailbar! Nicely said!
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 04/26/2014  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ssuperddave, so are you saying I could sell the 1892 CC Morgan for 2200.00 or that's what a dealer sells it for? My apologies for being completely clueless to all this.
I sold it last night for 1800.00 after reducing price on ebay. ebay took their 10% and Paypal took their 3%--- leaving a sale profit of 1560 after paying shipping this morning. However looking at the purchase price on receipt of $2670.00-- it's discouraging. I had a "buy it now" for 2400.00 at first and had 2 watchers when the auction ended. So I reduced to 2300. Then again to 2000. Down to 1800.00- within 30 minutes it sold at that price. Almost a 1200.00 loss.


$2200 is the rough range that equivalent coins (PCGS 63's) are going for at Heritage. Be aware, though, that ebay is actually on the lower end of the scale for fees - although the fees themselves hit you as the seller less at a place like Heritage - they're buyer-directed - it factors into the bids chosen by the buyer and hits you that way.

Coins are not a steady-state value thing. Prices fluctuate. There was a significant runup of prices in the late 1980's, when Wall Street "discovered" the collectible coin market, and there was one whale of a buyer spending literally millions in the market. Prices to this day have not recovered from that runup, and anyone who bought back then will get rather beaten about the head, reselling today.

So you cannot afford to look at the price paid for the coins you're liquidating - you just have to maximize your chances to realize the best price, meaning find the right venue and the right timing to get the coin in front of the best-possible buying demographic.

And don't forget: Then, and now, and for all of numismatic history, there are and have been those who appear reputable but will cheerfully offer you too little or sell to you too high. It's endemic to the hobby, not illegal, and knowledge is your only weapon.
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Hammbone's Avatar
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133 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2014  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hammbone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ssuperdave and chasingtailbar, the 1892cc was initially listed on ebay as an auction starting at 2500.00. No bids but 2 watchers. I relisted it two more times both times reducing the price. While sitting at my aunts house, I told her I just can't sell them on line. I had a couple of emails from potential buyers offering 1200.00 and 1350.00. I told her this but said I wasn't going to give the coin away like that but she is super frustrated because she has too much to worry about one coin she can't even sell. So she told me to list it for 1800.00. It sold in 30 minutes with instant payment. It was shipped yesterday to a man in California. I'm sure he'll be very satisfied as I sit here with a knot in the pit of my stomach. Ugh! Basically the reason for this reply is, I wanted to let you know I did start the bidding higher, I only ended up with the auction ending and zero bids, two watchers and a couple of messages making offers from low ballers. That is why I felt I was in the wrong place to sell. I think like everyone else, eBayer looking to buy coins are lurking and waiting for people like my aunt to give them away. It kills me to see that happening. Especially when my uncle told me to not let her get taken. It's very sad how he saved and collected his whole life and never enjoyed the profits of not having been able to sell them. I feel like we are doing him an injustice. It's very discouraging and I almost don't want to be a part of it. I think with coins you can't help but to sit on them- just with the buffalo reverse- it's a beautiful coin- I thought about buying it but after what happened to my uncle I can see why you leave this earth leaving coins behind- you never want to sell the precious ones. Does that make sense?
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 Posted 04/26/2014  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chasingtailbar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I must be missing something.

Here is the sold listing;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291132506713

And here is the only other listing for that coin in your history;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291129542788

Here are all of your completed listings;
http://www.ebay.com/sch/shamm922/m....lete=1&rt=nc

So what am I missing here? I only see the $2500 (didn't sell) and the $1800 (did sell).

I wouldn't beat yourself up too much over the price anyway... she's the one who told you to list it at that price. If it makes you feel better, most numismatists don't care so much about profits and consider the purchase expense of their coins to be a sunk cost. I personally care about buying under market because I am greedy.

Also, contrary to what you think, many ebay buyers are well-heeled and more than willing to pay up for nice coins. That's how I make my side money... finding premium material at regular prices, then jacking up the price and selling it for a premium price. If you want some advice on your auctions, start them at 99 cents. Starting them with the higher opening bids you have is brutal, you miss out on a lot of bidders because of that. It's very rare that a coin on a 7 day, 99 cent auction sells for less than it's worth. My exact strategy is that I generally list with a BIN that is maybe 25% over typical ebay closing price for the coin, then after 30 days, send it to auction. Funny thing is, there's been a few cases of coins that actually went for more at auction than the BIN. :)

Side note, this thread really helps hammer home the point that every serious collector should have a plan in place to have their collection dispersed in the event of their death. My wife knows that if I die, she should call Heritage Auctions and work with them to sell everything that isn't bullion, and everything else goes to a local dealer I trust. I've got things fairly organized for her as well, so she will be able to do things at her own rate whenever the time comes.
Edited by chasingtailbar
04/26/2014 2:22 pm
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Hammbone's Avatar
United States
133 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2014  2:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hammbone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So are you guys telling me Ha.com is the best place to sell and dispose of a ridiculously large collection? I can't even imagine trying to inventory each and all and especially not having expertise in grading. This is so frustrating. Maybe I can get my 250 posts and sell here.
I think back when we were helping my aunt go through the house to declutter and we found several large jars of coins which (at the time) looked to be just pocket change saved up from over the years- thought every night my uncle took the change from his pocket and chunked them in the jar. I found it odd that no pennies were in there- there were quarters in one jar, pennies in another etc- Long story short, she had her son in law take the jars and dump them in the coin star machine at a local grocer!! I sit here and question if these coin jars were special coins of value. Seems like we keep making mistakes upon mistakes. SIGH!
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 Posted 04/26/2014  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chasingtailbar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The mistakes are the reason I suggest sitting down with someone, even if you have to pay them some money to work with ya, because it will save you multiples more down the road... It's unfortunate, but without experience, it's really difficult to get fair value for a decent-sized collection.

Honestly, unless you have more coins like that '92-CC, HA won't do much for you. They specialize in nicer stuff, I'd say coins at $500 and up. If it's mostly common-date material and junk silver, you're just going to have to grind through your mistakes and learn as you go, without proper help... whereas if you seek out help, you stand a much better chance at netting fair value for the lot.

If yu haven't bought a Red Book yet, I would definitely do that... that will at least help you get the basics of coins, collecting, and values down... although Red Book's values are pretty bad, they at least can give you a rough idea of how things work.

Let's start with this, though... are there any other PCGS, NGC, ANACS or ICG graded coins?
Edited by chasingtailbar
04/26/2014 2:37 pm
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Hammbone's Avatar
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133 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2014  3:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hammbone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Chasingtailbar, what you're missing is I that after the initial ebay listing to auction it for 7 days which I waited until it ended with no sale. I relisted it and reduced price- it was a reduced but fixed with a buy it now price - I did this twice. It didn't sell and because it didn't have any bids, I did an "edit listing" and kept reducing until it sold. I wonder if the edited listing doesn't show up. Could that be it?
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Hammbone's Avatar
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133 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2014  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hammbone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My aunt has a tight reign and has the boxes dispersed in different locations out of her home for safe keeping. I can't get to them without her approval and it's not where we can just go and get so easily. I was only allowed a randomly select few from a box just to play around with. The pics of coins I've posted is all I have- maybe a couple others. Her son is too busy and isn't interested and My uncle appointed me to handle this task, I feel, due to the honest factor. (God have mercy!) I'm humbled by the fact he trusted me and my aunt depends on me to help but goodness, this is way too much. Ultimately my aunt has the last say so but I see her patience is getting shorter and shorter. She is needing to take care of this so she can move closer to her brother out of state. I have approx three weeks before the dealer (the one that I discussed earlier in this thread) comes to make an offer on a group lot. I don't know her plan of action as I know she has them all dispersed, which I'm glad. Maybe she will do a box at a time. I asked her to please let me go through the boxes and she doesn't see a need if I can't even sell the 17-21 coins I have in my possession on ebay. That's when I told her I could sell them easy but I couldn't get what I was asking on ebay because people are looking for deals. Hence, how the 1800.00 sale of the 1892cc came about.
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