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 Replies: 15 / Views: 3,865 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1823 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Sure. All one needs is a spectrometer to confirm.
The question is... why did Colonial Acres even looked for this in the first place? Is the color different?
I am not sure what to make of this.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
I agree, I want an error where I can look with the naked eye and go wow how did that happen, not one where I need special equipment just to say they mixed the metal a bit weird in that batch.
Feel free to call me Will.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3690 Posts |
A total head scratcher, and canadian_coins makes a great point. Why would anyone analyze the metal content?
Do I now have to go out a buy a bunch of lab equipment to see if I have any of these errors?
And who would pay a premium for such an anomaly? The only answer I have for that question is 'not me'.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2124 Posts |
I guess that if the rule would be from now using a spectrometer, we would find many 'errors'.
Btw, that set is no more considered Mint condition if it's been opened.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1823 Posts |
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Valued Member
Canada
480 Posts |
I enjoy collecting toonies so I always watch things like these, a month or two back a different seller was selling the same themed coin. He compared 2 toonies from the same year and finish, one was lighter in colour then the other he called it a "TITANIUM IMPURITY" as well and in the end he had a buyer. In his ad he also mentions other examples have been tested so I could only assume this error dates back past his feb 12th listing. I'm not a fan of this type of error but again that's just me. Found the item # 151226472835 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3690 Posts |
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-P-PL-s...151228756559Another listing from the same seller that didn't sell. Could be the same coin. Interesting that it's a PL as opposed to the SP that colonial acres is selling. It really makes me wonder if this is a real error or not and if it is real how widespread is it? PL sets, SP sets, how about circulation? I checked my 2006 snow owl set and compared it to a 2007 SP set. The toonie looks the same to me. Guess I just don't have the error coin. 
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
It is not an error. Do some searches here on CCF, using keywords XRF and titanium, because I am not going to reiterate why (again) this is not an error. That is what happens when people use older or less powerful technology for analytical testing, and trusting whatever numbers (or elements) the software interprets the energy peaks to be... Quote:
If I had one of these I would find a lot of errors. I use one of those instruments in the field. I don't use it for analytical results that I use and publish, I use it to guide my sampling - wet chemistry or fire assay is still more accurate and precise. Also, yingyang, in Canada, you need to be certified and licensed to operate a hand-held XRF: http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/mining-mater...testing/8580"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
04/25/2014 9:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3690 Posts |
Edited by CC-Ottawa
04/25/2014 9:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
What causes the colour anomaly (other thread)? That would lead people to wonder about the metal content.
Is this the case with the CA example? The pics aren't good enough to tell, and the description doesn't talk about any visual difference.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1823 Posts |
I emailed them and told them they are not rare, here is there response
Hi Ron,Thanks for the e-mail. Kirk, who had the analysis done (I believe at the University of Waterloo) with an ElvaX spectrometer after seeing the very light colouring of the inner core, isn't around today, but we'll be responding to the thread when I can get some more specific details from him. For your info, we've listed the impure coin as rare because of a lack of any kind of reference either online or catalogued. We'll be modifying the listing with a better comparative picture and a scan of the analysis as well. Whether or not the analysis results are suspect, which we do not believe they are, there is a definite difference in colour with the coin that we've identified in a few 2005 and 2006 uncirculated sets as well. Again, thanks for your time, appreciate the heads up. Matt
Billombillo@colonialacres.com
Colonial Acres Coins991 Victoria St NKitchener ON N2B 3C7Toll Free: 1-888-255-4565, Ext. 208Phone: 519-579-9048, Ext. 208
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
Heh... didn't I mention the use of Russian-built XRF instruments in my earlier posts? "The EDXRF spectrometer|analyzer is registered in the State registry of measurement instruments accepted for usage in Ukraine..."That instrument also uses a sub-standard detector, it used a solid state Si-pin-diode detector, as opposed to most modern XRF instruments which use a large area Silicon Drift Detector (SDD). It uses a tungsten (W) or silver (Ag) anode in the X-Ray tube, even though their advertising brochure is for alloys... For example, a tantalum (Ta) anode x-ray tube configuration is utilized for excellent sensitivity measuring 25+ transition metals including Cd, Ag, Au, Pb, Cr, and even Rare Earth Elements. A rhodium (Rh) anode configuration is used when the application calls for optimized analysis of light elements including Al, Si, S, Mg and P, along with mid range transition metals. The RCM does not use titanium in any of their coins, for any country they produce coins for - that is the first red flag. I think the instrument is either interpreting the interference of energy peaks in the detector as titanium, or is picking up attenuated beam scatter from the instrument itself. The exact same XRF was shown to give erroneous titanium values for glass standards in this paper (see Table 3) when compared to INAA (neutron activation analysis). http://socant.chass.ncsu.edu/docume...hauser_1.pdfHere is a simple test for Colonial Acres. Test a normal two-dollar core, and document how much titanium that instrument interprets there to be... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
04/28/2014 5:10 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1823 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1823 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts |
But this is the same seller...
It could be, someone from the stuff had rented or bought the equipment. In order to justify the high price, he had to find errors and he did find.
Why 2010 sets and not some loose toonies? Because as set the item has more authenticity and limited, and they had much more these in stock rather than other year set.
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Replies: 15 / Views: 3,865 |
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Posted 04/24/2014 8:08 pm
